I can not understand what makes a person do these kind of things...
So very sad...

Unfortunately, it's becoming something we're expecting, not a surprise anymore.

My thoughts and prayers go out to those who were affected by this horrible tragedy.

If anyone EVER figures it out, please let me know!!! Sickening!!!
Slammer!!!

i heard that they had called police out several times to the home on mental health problems... she/he was born a guy and had changed over ,, maybe thats what pushed she/he over the edge... hard to say.

Its an uncommon tragedy in Canada, but not one that we're immune to. Even with our very strict gun laws, banning of handguns and assault style weapons, this underscores the need for resources dedicated to mental health services. The shooter had a history of police involvement due to mental health concerns. How was she able to obtain these firearms? Whatever happens now will be too little too late. Its beyond heartbreaking.

Well stated Jack.   If I'm allowed to add .... from my perspective, seemingly it "underscores the need" for you and me, but  v-e-r-y  frustratingly  not so much for those who have the means.

In the last several years, police had responded to Jesse Van Rootselaar's home on "multiple occasions" over concerns with her mental health, McDonald told reporters on Wednesday.

A couple of years ago, he said that police seized firearms from the home and had taken Van Rootselaar in for assessments at hospitals under Canada's Mental Health Act. McDonald said police last visited the home sometime last year and didn't know if Van Rootselaar was actively getting treatment for her mental health troubles.

"I can not understand what makes a person do these kind of things..."

Nothing "makes" them do this. They do it because they want to do it, and they can do it. They can do it because they have a gun.

These human casualties are the price we pay to have a Second Amendment, even in Canada.

quote:

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Originally posted by RB3

"I can not understand what makes a person do these kind of things..."

Nothing "makes" them do this. They do it because they want to do it, and they can do it. They can do it because they have a gun.

These human casualties are the price we pay to have a Second Amendment, even in Canada.

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Agree..except we in Canada do not have a 2nd amendment, in that we have no constitutional right to own firearms. Its a privilege extended by the govt and police which can be altered or rescinded at anytime without recourse. This tragedy might spur even more gun controls, given the shooter had a history of mental illness, and previously had firearms removed. Lots of questions... 

The head RCMP officer said the shooter petitioned to have the guns returned to him after a period of time, so the police did so - l’m not sure what year that was. His/her gun permit, however, had expired in 2024.  More information needs to gathered before we start assessing blame,, like Dave mentioned ,  there are lots of questions. 

quote:

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Originally posted by RB3

"I can not understand what makes a person do these kind of things..."

Nothing "makes" them do this. They do it because they want to do it, and they can do it. They can do it because they have a gun.

These human casualties are the price we pay to have a Second Amendment, even in Canada.

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Gunpowder and the associated technology of firearms is over 1000 years old.  A sixth grader is fully capable of constructing a working firearm from materials found in any hardware store.  The notion that violence is caused by weapons is not logical.

The idea that violence can be eliminated with legislation is not logical.  

Human beings are capable of extremely violent behavior.  Violence can only be reduced by addressing violent behavior in a serious and thoughtful way.

Blaming the matches for the fire will not eliminate fires.  Rather, the intense focus on the means of violence reduces our awareness of the motive.  As long as individuals are motivated to commit violence, we will have violence.

Jon Borcherding,

If you want to shoot someone, you need a gun. If you can't get a gun, you can't shoot anyone. How's that for bullet-proof logic?

if you can find a 6th grader who can build a semi auto weapon from hardware store items,,, bill gates has a position open building software for them making millions for someone that advanced.

quote:

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Originally posted by RB3

Jon Borcherding,

If you want to shoot someone, you need a gun. If you can't get a gun, you can't shoot anyone. How's that for bullet-proof logic?

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If you want to start a fire, you need matches, or a lighter, or flint and steel, or bow drill, etc. etc.

There are an estimated 500 million privately owned firearms in the USA alone.  That's not going to change any time soon.  The best way to reduce the level of violence is to focus our efforts on behavior.

Some might see it as somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but doesn't the status quo* focus on behaviour?  

* i.e. "might is right" and/or "you're not the boss of me" behaviour.

P.S. Logistics aside, is Wayne's logic logical?   

Edit: Would it be useful to look at  it as a tool in the toolbox, rather than a "solution"?

quote:

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Originally posted by 1935tb-11

if you can find a 6th grader who can build a semi auto weapon from hardware store items,,, bill gates has a position open building software for them making millions for someone that advanced.

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Violence is not caused by inanimate objects.  Violence is a behavior.  The focus on the weapon diverts attention from the behavior.  You cannot outlaw a 1000 year old technology.  Even if you could, people with violent behavior will still commit acts of violence.  Focus on the behavior or get used to increasing levels of senseless violence.

The problem is that treating mental health requires a lot of professionals and is therefore very expensive, and unfortunately doesn’t come with guarantees. I went to rehab and one of the counselors told us “you have a 7% chance of still being alcohol-free in two years” ,,, which looking back seems like a dumb thing to say but perhaps he was trying to scare us into really digging into the program.
I’m not sure the powers that be have the will to invest billions into mental health treatments.

quote:

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Originally posted by chuckv97

The problem is that treating mental health requires a lot of professionals and is therefore very expensive, and unfortunately doesn’t come with guarantees. I went to rehab and one of the counselors told us “you have a 7% chance of still being alcohol-free in two years” ,,, which looking back seems like a dumb thing to say but perhaps he was trying to scare us into really digging into the program.
I’m not sure the powers that be have the will to invest billions into mental health treatments.

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Dig deeper.  What is causing peoples' mental health issues? 

School shootings were almost unheard of 50 years ago.  Keep in mind, at that time you could buy a rifle and ammunition through mail-order.

Now it seems school shootings are a weekly occurrence. 

What happened?    Behavior changed.  Why?

quote:

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Originally posted by Jon Borcherding

quote:

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Originally posted by chuckv97

The problem is that treating mental health requires a lot of professionals and is therefore very expensive, and unfortunately doesn’t come with guarantees. I went to rehab and one of the counselors told us “you have a 7% chance of still being alcohol-free in two years” ,,, which looking back seems like a dumb thing to say but perhaps he was trying to scare us into really digging into the program.
I’m not sure the powers that be have the will to invest billions into mental health treatments.

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Dig deeper.  What is causing peoples' mental health issues? 

School shootings were almost unheard of 50 years ago.  Keep in mind, at that time you could buy a rifle and ammunition through mail-order.

Now it seems school shootings are a weekly occurrence. 

What happened?    Behavior changed.  Why?

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I can't answer that. That's why I mentioned billions of $ to "adjust attitudes" , if you will. ,, or are you suggesting that there's a breakdown in societal norms (broken homes, rejection of spirituality, general crudeness brought on by the internet platforms) ,,, or even a nefarious plot by the snakes behind the curtain to create havoc and then move in to dominate?  (I'm reluctant to buy into conspiracy theories, however)

I think part of the problem is children who are brought up without learning that "actions have consequenses". When people get away with small time crime and are either given a slap on the wrist or not punished at all, that very well may lead to bigger crimes.

As far as mental health goes, who knows what causes a person to turn toward violence and is there a way to stop it? Are they born with that propensity or does it have something to do with the way they are raised or the area where they live, the school they attend, the way they are treated at how or a school or by others? Questions with few answers. I doubt we'll ever understand why people act out as they do.

"The idea that violence can be eliminated with legislation is not logical."

With respect to violence with the use of a gun, someone needs to explain this to the folks in Japan. With a population of slightly more than 122 million, there are 10 to 15 gun deaths each year in Japan, and that's in a bad year. Gun ownership in Japan is very low, so it's difficult for them to shoot each other.

With a population of more than 340 million, there are about 47,000 gun deaths each year in the USA. With the 400-500 million guns that are in the USA, we can shoot each other as often as we please.

Another mentally ill person who was used to manufacture a school shooting in an effort to take every last firearm from law abiding citizens in Canada. Sadly it will probably work.

(broken homes, rejection of spirituality, general crudeness brought on by the internet platforms)

Yes.  I would add the proliferation of pharmaceutical and recreational drugs,  the surrender of parenting responsibility to govt., the ubiquity of violence in popular media, the sexualization of children... and I could think of more but it gets a little overwhelming and depressing to consider all the things that are so totally screwed up in our culture.

At the same time, I think it is more effective for individuals to seek remedy for these problems than to fantasize about confiscating 500 million firearms from Americans.  Even if that were possible, the day after all the guns were melted down someone would blow up a school.  

The problem must be addressed at it's root or it will continue and it will get worse.

My experience with addiction recovery comes from being very active with a local recovery group that my wife and I support both directly and financially.  It is one of the most successful recovery programs in our state.  The reason it is is so successful is unquestionably because it is firmly based in spirituality.  I'm sure you know that most 12 step programs share this approach to some degree.  

This may seem unrelated to the topic, but I think it is very relevant because the spiritual element provides the unifying system of values that allows these recovering people to successfully change their behavior and overcome their addictions, and STAY clean.

I feel strongly that, in the absence of a unifying system of values, our culture will continue to decline and fracture along every imaginable line of division including income, ethnicity, sex, age, ability, etc.

I'm just one a of 350 million broken human beings living in the USA.  All I can do is help educate my grandkids, provide meaningful employment for my employees, help out at the local recovery place and most importantly, pray for unity.

quote:

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Originally posted by RB3

"The idea that violence can be eliminated with legislation is not logical."

With respect to violence with the use of a gun, someone needs to explain this to the folks in Japan. With a population of slightly more than 122 million, there are 10 to 15 gun deaths each year in Japan, and that's in a bad year. Gun ownership in Japan is very low, so it's difficult for them to shoot each other.

With a population of more than 340 million, there are about 47,000 gun deaths each year in the USA. With the 400-500 million guns that are in the USA, we can shoot each other as often as we please.

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Japan to USA is apples to oranges.  Japan is not anywhere near as ethnically diverse as the USA.  They are much more ethnically homogenous, resulting in a unified set of common values.  The divorce rate in Japan is approximately half of what it is in the USA.  Japan is also more unified spiritually with a large percentage of the population engaged in Shinto or Buddhism or a combination of the two and it appears this results in a shared sense of values and purpose.

quote:

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Originally posted by 1935tb-11

if you can find a 6th grader who can build a semi auto weapon from hardware store items,,, bill gates has a position open building software for them making millions for someone that advanced.

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Show us where Bill Gates has posted this job opening.