1. When did 25.4" become "standard"?

1) By "D" do you mean aDADE or dADF#A tuning? Because Nylguts tend to break if you tune too high, you'd probably be better off with with a short scale A scale banjo, about 23" if you are after double D tuning. and If you want dADF#A tuning then Nylgut Minstel strings will usually work but a longer 26" plus scale might sound better. With the 25&1/2" scale I find the Minstrel Nylgut strings a little under tone, a little too slack, but not enough to not tune that way.

2) I do like the sound and feel of Nylguts but there is also nylon guitar strings to experiment with.

3) Good luck!!

banjered

quote:

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Originally posted by Ragtimejoe

I've been playing clawhammer banjo for many years. I'm looking to add a fretless with nylon strings for D tuning. A couple of questions:

1. Can I tune nylon strings up to D on a standard 25.4" scale banjo or should I consider a short scale banjo?  I do not tune higher than gCGBD on 25-26" scales.

2. Which strings do folks recommend?  Nylguts with a wound 4th string.  During initial tuning Nylguts break easy; bring them to pitch slowly over a period of week or so.  The LaBella 17's are finer boned and okay too; they don't tend to break as easily during initial tuning.

3. Where can I find a fretless banjo? I thought they would be pretty plentiful, but they are hard to find. Any builders making them in the $1,500 or less range?  Your banjo is waiting for you on the used market. 

Example1:  Goodtime banjos are a fairly natural conversion and the lack of a truss rod keeps the neck lively, it's a good thing: replace the bridge with a two leg, replace the tailpiece, add a pip, slot the nut, polish the sharp edges and dun.  note: on the old multi-ply Gumby rims add a light brass tone hoop or get a 'Special' model.

Example2:  Do the research and find a mid-tier or better banjo designed and constructed for gut strings.  Look for a double bead on an old spun rim (rolled edge on the top and bottom of the rim).  There is such a wide variety that looking for one attribute is not a substitute for doing your homework but it is a start in one of the 'right' directions.

Thank you for your time.

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Thank you for your help.

Gold Tone makes a fretless version of the AC-1, very affordable. (I can't get past the composite rim, personally)

I played a fretted version. I hated it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ragtimejoe

I've been playing clawhammer banjo for many years. I'm looking to add a fretless with nylon strings for D tuning. A couple of questions:

1. Can I tune nylon strings up to D on a standard 25.4" scale banjo or should I consider a short scale banjo?

2. Which strings do folks recommend?

3. Where can I find a fretless banjo? I thought they would be pretty plentiful, but they are hard to find. Any builders making them in the $1,500 or less range?

Thank you for your time.

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I have tried a specialized "fretless" capo on my fretless, it just wasn't very satisfying. I would certainly go for a short scale for tuning to D.

Nylon strings are much more forgiving than the Nylgut. I would start working with LaBella and bracket a couple sizes up and down from "medium". Look at the Clifford Essex nylon strings for common gauges (get a wound 4th) and then you can buy singles to make up sets from LaBella (unless you want to buy sets from Clifford Essex...I do for Classic fingerstyle, and really like them).

https://cliffordessex.com/product/5-string-banjo-classical-sets

You can also try common guitar nylon sets. You have to buy two sets to get the 1st and 5th string (the high E) at the right gauge but Nylon guitar strings are usually easy to find locally.

Bernunzio's has a fretless banjo category...but they're generally antique/vintage banjos, typically over 26" scales...and expensive. Worth checking their site though.

Let me try this again:

My banjo is a Pisgah fretless Roscoe. 12" head. 12.5" scale. Renaissance head. I plan to play in aDADE tuning (no capo).

My question is what nylon strings will work best for this setup?

Thank you.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ragtimejoe

Let me try this again:

My banjo is a Pisgah fretless Roscoe. 12" head. 25.5" scale. Renaissance head. I plan to play in aDADE tuning (no capo).

My question is what nylon strings will work best for this setup?

Thank you.

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gCGCD is a good plan, aDADE is a challenging path.  

Nylguts will be difficult to consistently get up to 'A' without breaking (steel doesn't like 'A' either). 

Monofilament fishing line will do it and plain nylon strings may make it up there (Marc's Clifford Essex recommendation is a good one)... 

Good luck.

I use individual high-tension nylon guitar strings. Don’t know exactly what I have on each of my 2 fretless banjos. I just bought a bunch of strings that seemed in the appropriate size range and worked from there. I use high tension strings because I like to hit the strings hard, and the high-tensions don’t mush out. Note that I do not use pre-selected packaged string sets for any of my banjos, steel, nylon, or gut.

Thank you. That makes sense

quote:

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Originally posted by Ragtimejoe

Let me try this again:

My banjo is a Pisgah fretless Roscoe. 12" head. 12.5" scale. Renaissance head. I plan to play in aDADE tuning (no capo).

My question is what nylon strings will work best for this setup?

Thank you.

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Pisgah says it is a "short scale" banjo at that scale length, perhaps "compromise" might be a better descriptor. I would try nylons at that length and in your preferred tuning. You will probably want to install them and tune to standard G...let them rest overnight and then ease up to D. The 5th string will be the tell. Definitely make sure every spot that touches the strings has been deburred. Tailpiece to tuners, no sharp edges. I think I would prefer a 23" scale for aDADE but since you're already at 25.5, you're just going to have to experiment.

Heavier gauge strings will take the extra tension better, but the stiffness may be an issue with your fingers. I am fairly sensitive to the feel of my strings, so I experiment a good bit (but I don't play much clawhammer on nylons). Of course, most steel strings will tune up to D at that length...but again, stiffness can be an issue.

As I said above, you'll want to bracket the string sizes to find out what works for you. I like my strings to fight back (which is part of why I don't play much clawhammer on nylon). The lights and extra lights are like wispy spider silk. Medium and up for ham-handed me...but first find what works!

If you come to Nashville's "Breaking Up Winter" this year, look me up. I usually hang out with Pat Camp who runs the PA system.

I'll probably go to Breaking up Winter. Haven't been in a couple of years. I was the treasurer of NOTSBA for a while when I lived in Nashville. Now we live outside of Knoxville.

I have nylgut mediums (the set with the red 4th string), and I tune them up to aDADE without issues, on a banjo with a 25.5 scale length. I tried nylgut reds once and found they broke easily. I've heard through some people at my local shop that labella no 17's tune up to A/D easily also, but I never got around to trying them, after finding the nylgut mediums work fine for me.

I have used monofilament fishing line on several banjos, including cookie tin, minstrel, fretless, fretted. I have spools of various weights, including leader material, that I have experimented with, and have yet to break a string. They take a long time to stretch, and maybe won’t give the tone you’re looking for, but it’s so cheap and may be instructive.

This was because I broke too many nylguts.

Go here for just about any gauge:

Savarez Rectified Plain Nylon Strings | Classical Guitar Strings

They have a customer service number if you have questions.  Obviously pitch and scale length are gauge determinants.

I typically use Nylgut on my *low-tuned* Bowlin Fretless.

Thank you

I've been playing fretless for a little over 1 year now, using Aquila Nylgut medium strings. I tune to aDADE & aEAC#E quite often. My current set of strings has been on the banjo for 8 months. Fiddle & Banjo duet with a fretless is really a great sound - tune it up and enjoy.

I’ve built a handful of fretless banjos and tuned some up to double D. I’d say that you may just plan on spending $30-50 on a handful of sets and see what you like. Each instrument is different. Try one, play on it for a week and pick up a different set if its tone is tight or not right in some other way. At $10 a set, it’s not terrible.

My go to has always been various Nylgut sets, but I’m enjoying Bella’s right now. It’s one thing where the online research is far less helpful than the “just try stuff” research.

Also, I’ve had luck with a regular capo on a fretless. Most recently with my semi-fretless, which requires getting it aligned just right for intonation ip the neck. But it feels like a fingered note, so it works. It’s not the same as open, but it’s an option worth messing around with.

My Calkins Ohioan is currently tuned to aDADE with Nylguts. I don't recall which set I put on it, but it's the set with a plain (not red) unwound 4th string.
I winced and grit my teeth when I tuned it up, and it's been holding over 2 weeks now.
I guess you just have to hold the proper facial expression while tuning!
Oh yeah... the scale length is 25ish.

I just strung mine up today. It's at G tuning to settle in then up to G# and then to A.

Fretless banjo is where I feel most ‘at home’.

Playing finger-style on early/vintage banjos I use either gut and silk or rectified nylon for gCGBD and gDGBD 5-string tuning (though myself more typically gGCGBD and gGDGBD 6-string tuning). All other common keys can be played out of these tunings and I never tune up to A or D.

Playing down-picking on modern fretless banjos I prefer steel. My main player for OT is a 5-string 12” Mac Traynham 25” scale fretless with a thin calf-skin head. I tune this as required in G, A, C or D tuning and variants. To my hands and ears nylon strings on a modern 12” fretless with skin head are unresponsive and much less interesting. The tones that are obtainable with steel on a modern fretless are a vivid soundscape all of their own.

I avoid nylgut altogether.

Mac Traynham 12” fretless with steel strings.

I have a Nate Calkins fretless I bought two years ago. It’s well constructed, has a fine sound, and I believe they sell for $1400 plus shipping. Nate builds to order (he usually also has a few in stock) so you have some choice of woods.