Its not reality that a customer can arrange and have present a QUALIFIED LUTHIER during the unboxing, unless you want to pay for his time and judgement, YOU can take photos of the instrument on unboxing foryour comfort and give the buyer a week to decide

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Originally posted by Marion

You make a very good point and I had also thought of that. That was the main reason I want to deliver in person. If all is not satisfactory, the deal would be off and I would return with the banjo. That’s the right thing to do.

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Another query.....

What would you do if there is disagreement upon the unboxing?

Assuming the buyer knows about banjo set-up and can play.....

The buyer says "this banjo definitely needs a neck reset." But you look at it and say "it looks fine to me."

What happens at that point?

Are you willing to refund the purchase price if requested?

Would you pay for the neck reset?

If you refund the buyer....will the banjo now be repaired at your expense or sold "as is?"

Seems like the asking price has come down in the last few days...

A Gibson ESS from that period -- the "first design, coffee colored" ones -- may or may not be a good one. At least from reading reports of actual owners of such banjos in this forum for many years. Some of these were ok, while others were clunkers. How are you going to know what you're getting ?? Not even the seller knows.

I'm thinking that as soon as the buyer opens the box, he's going to be holding a banjo that drops about $2k in value RIGHT THERE.

If it was a "Rich Era" banjo of the "re-design" of the late 80's, that might be a different story.

Any savvy shopper who takes the time to learn about the history of the ESS model is probably going to avoid this one. The potential list of buyers will be those players who DON'T really know what they're looking for.

John exactly , good points, IF its the early ones they are known as stew mac parts banjos, the whole basis for this sale is buying a sight unseen UNPLAYED, UNTESTED acoustic instrument, which is absurd, its condition is one huge problem but as you say, wht if it sounds like a dog, THAT is equally as importsant as condition, and demands hands on time to determine

I find it most interesting....

That the biggest selling point here is NOT how great the banjo could be.....

It's that you get to be the first to "open the box!"

Am I missing something?

Id say you are not missing any thing and focused like any body looking to spend serious money, this looks like a carnival game gone wrong

How much assurance do you usually expect when buying an instrument from a private seller?

Some shops have better return policies than others, but when you guy from a person on craigslist, you either trade the cash for the instrument or you walk away.

Anything you sell, you hope that someone out there wants some aspect of it enough to pay a premium. Maybe there's a collector out there who finds the time capsule aspect of it enticing. Maybe not, in which case the seller will have to decide if they want to unbox it in order to have a more detailed listing.

There's a lot of curiosity about it. Maybe the seller should work with some youtuber to record it and get a bunch of exposure to their channel. Like Al Capone's vault, except we can reasonably expect that there is something in that case.

Call the pawn shop TV show. Seriously. They are always looking for interesting stories, and this would be perfect for them. They also put cool stories like this up on YouTube.

That is an excellent idea worth pondering. Thanks for your suggestion, it is appreciated.

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Originally posted by Dean T

Call the pawn shop TV show. Seriously. They are always looking for interesting stories, and this would be perfect for them. They also put cool stories like this up on YouTube.

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Just...when...you thought this topic could not possibly venture into more bizarre terrain....then this!

Well, how about another idea?

A great source for a 'Twilight Zone" episode: Every picker who opens this box will be transported back to jam sessions in the 1980s! Until finally one picker who time travels is stuck in 1985 when the box is inadvertently destroyed by a well-meaning janitor!

Go figure!

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Originally posted by Mark Douglas

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Originally posted by Dean T

Call the pawn shop TV show. Seriously. They are always looking for interesting stories, and this would be perfect for them. They also put cool stories like this up on YouTube.

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Just...when...you thought this topic could not possibly venture into more bizarre terrain....then this!...

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I'm being serious, and don't think it's bizarre at all. I've been watching Pawn Stars since its inception, and have always liked it. Rick is surprisingly knowledgeable about old instruments, and their experts are always interesting. It's always fun watching folks bring in old Les Pauls, Strats and Teles, and the occasional violin, mando or other instruments. Just last week I watched and interesting segment with a beat up old acoustic guitar signed by the Beatles. I'm sure the show has plenty of financing to make everyone happy, and I've watched it long enough to think some of the stories are set ups, to make things interesting. I could see Rick being hesitant to pay money for a sealed box, and Chumly volunteering to put up the cash, just to be the guy to open the box. This is exactly the kind of stuff this show is looking for, and if by some chance it ever happens, I can't wait to watch it. 

Well I've thought about this thing a lot - it's fascinating. I feel a little bad the rough time some correspondents have given the original poster. But he did ask for thoughts...

As far as offering the thing for sale "as is" with the high mystery factor intact, I'd say add a premium to the typical asking price on an early Scruggs model. I don't claim to have kept notes on everything I've seen offered, but keeping in mind they don't seem to command prices as high as the Greg Rich Scruggs Standard, I'll take a quick guess that actual selling price of a mid 1980s honey colored Scruggs might be around $3500 on a good day. Somewhere out there one can probably find someone who WILL pay a premium for the mystery factor. So I suggest offering it at $5000 and see if you get any bites.

What a buyer actually does with the banjo if he pays $5000 for it is ENTIRELY UP TO HIM/HER. The seller seems to be willing to cancel the deal if the box is opened and the banjo is damaged in some way. That's more than fair. If the buyer chooses NOT to open it in a reasonable time, he takes his chances. No refund if he opens it in a year and doesn't like what he finds, unless there's no banjo in there at all.

That's the only way to find out if there's a buyer. Put a price on it and see if anyone responds.

Or just offer it at $3500 and let the mystery factor increase the number of respondents. Or set a time limit and have a bidding battle...

As I said, it IS fascinating though. I just want to be informed of what finally happens!

Good luck to seller and buyer, both!

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Originally posted by Dean T

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Douglas

quote:

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Originally posted by Dean T

Call the pawn shop TV show. Seriously. They are always looking for interesting stories, and this would be perfect for them. They also put cool stories like this up on YouTube.

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Just...when...you thought this topic could not possibly venture into more bizarre terrain....then this!...

---

I'm being serious, and don't think it's bizarre at all. I've been watching Pawn Stars since its inception, and have always liked it. Rick is surprisingly knowledgeable about old instruments, and their experts are always interesting. It's always fun watching folks bring in old Les Pauls, Strats and Teles, and the occasional violin, mando or other instruments. Just last week I watched and interesting segment with a beat up old acoustic guitar signed by the Beatles. I'm sure the show has plenty of financing to make everyone happy, and I've watched it long enough to think some of the stories are set ups, to make things interesting. I could see Rick being hesitant to pay money for a sealed box, and Chumly volunteering to put up the cash, just to be the guy to open the box. This is exactly the kind of stuff this show is looking for, and if by some chance it ever happens, I can't wait to watch it. 

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Not gonna happen!

Never....ever!

There is no way to authenticate that the box has been sealed all these years! No way to verify there is a banjo in there that is playable/intact!

No way....no how....no why!

They would consider this an extraordinary waste of time!

Mark wrote:
"There is no way to authenticate that the box has been sealed all these years! No way to verify there is a banjo in there that is playable/intact!"

It's called "caveat emptor".
And if ever there was a purchase of which to be wary... it's this one...

You must watch a different show than me. The Pawn Stars I know would have Grich walk in and give everyone a history lesson. Marion would be nervous and excited, and Chumly would slap the cash down on the counter. Then they would spend 15 minutes and a commercial before the banjo was revealed, and handed to Greg for an inspection and determination of its value.

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Originally posted by Dean T

You must watch a different show than me. 

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No Dean.... we've all seen the same silly (concocted, simulated, etc.) show.

Some of us just have a different perception of reality.

Thanks for posting.

I think the fact that the seller is willing to cancel the deal and return the money if the case is full of sand like the ark from Indiana Jones, changes the entire equation. Someone might get a good deal, maybe not. But they won't get nothing.

THAT is missing the entire point of this whole inane topic, its never been about sand its about the banjo totally about the banjo inside and who would fall for a carnival trick and spend that kind of money

May be better to first have a luthier go over the banjo, set it up, and get it up to snuff?

Regardless, unboxing with all these unknowns sure got my curiosity up. I'm sure everyone here would love to see a video of the unboxing.

I love this story! Marion, I hope you'll share the back half of how it turns out. I think it's a great adventure you're offering. I'm curious about who buys it, what their perspective is on why they did. I'm curious about whether it meets and/or surpasses expectations for the buyer. And I'm curious about what it will be like for you to see the end of the story. It's also a kind of ending of the story of your family's store and the services they/you provided. I hope someone takes you up on it. Please let us know how it unfolds!

It's not about the unknown banjo inside. Existence of the banjo can be verified with a x-ray. 
 

It's like a bottle of rare vintage wine, only a couple left in the world. 
 

Collectors don't buy the bottle to open it and taste the wine -- they buy it to own the bottle and possess a rare item. Like a coin collector not actually spending that rare penny. 
 

This boxed banjo could be traded among collectors over and over again!

I claim no expertise re buying and selling instruments. But...

I think it's 100% legit to do what Marion has presented. It seems quite thoughtful to offer to deliver it in person, buyer and seller open it together after the payment is made, and if the instrument is truly pristine (may even be in tune!), as I suspect, that's that. If there's a problem, too bad for Marion, and they can renegotiate or Marion can take it back.

If the instrument came in a closed case and sealed in a box, I'd fully expect it to be in original condition. Even 40 years in a humid outer environment seems unlikely to cause any rust or deterioration.

But.... only Joe Z has mentioned the rather important fly in the ointment:
<Buy it for provenance and collectability only. In reality, these early Scruggs models were basically Stew-Mac parts banjos and from the couple I owned were not all that great out of the box. Needed neck resets, tone rings refit and had other issues. Don't get me wrong, they can be made to be decent banjos with some major setup work but the later ones after GR took over are light years better IMHO.>

I fully agree with Joe. Those banjos were disappointing when they appeared, after some initial excitement. As I understood at the time, this was the *first* instance of Gibson acknowledging and doing a deal withEarl Scruggs! .... after he'd prompted the sale of large numbers of Mastertones thanks to his incredible playing.

Oddly, the neck was a reproduction of the neck that was on Earl's Granada at the time, complete with *non*-standard smaller peghead. It was *called* an Earl Scruggs model, but the *real* Scruggs models came along later -- Greg Rich's faithful Granada copies, and his wonderful-sounding "standard" Scruggs models which were *always* (and I probably checked out about 15 of them) as good-sounding a quality banjo as anyone could want. I recommended them highly to anyone looking for a really good banjo-- they were even priced quite reasonably.

I told Greg how fabulous I thought they were (this was after a couple of decades of very-iffy Gibson Mastertones, a complete rebirth of Gibson quality) -- and Greg suggested I become a dealer. I did that and sold quite a few of those and Granadas. And I switched from playing my 30s RB-1 I'd played for over 25 years to a 1988 Granada after being told by people I trusted that it sounded better than the RB-1, listening from the audience.

I stopped being a dealer when I heard that "real" retailers didn't want me competing with them -- a fair point. But every time I picked up one of those late-80s/early 90s Scruggs models, they really delivered *sound*... immediately, even brand new. They even came from the factory right in tune.

So... the owner of Marion's prize might do better valuing it for the provenance/collectability factor as Joe said, than for the "great banjo sound" factor. Not all "Scruggs models" are equal, especially after the Greg Rich era.

I remember Earl showing up for a Colorado gig in the early 2000s with a brand new sparkly gold "Scruggs model" of some kind. They had a bunch of different "Scruggs models" by then. I was surprised to see him using something other than his 1934 warhorse at a major gig. So I asked him what he thought of it. Subtle as ever, he said nothing, but just made a face. !!! Of course he sounded good on it, but that face he made said all I needed to know.

Marion, I hope you do really well with your plan. Someone will get something pretty special -- if they're a collector.

I'm surprised this banjo hasn't sold? Especially with the cooperation expressed, within the ad, by the seller.
The seller's background. Where it appears to have been stored.

I've worked in the transportation industry for 40+ yrs. From what I see in the pictures and what is being offered by the seller. Unless you can hear parts moving around when the package is being handled? There is more of a chance that nothing is damaged. And it's just the model and year that is holding buyers back from making a purchase.

I love a bit of adventure with a good story behind it. Definitely a conversation piece at jams.

I just hope the transaction is recorded for all of us to see and read about.

Any interested buyers had better not wait too long. As far as I'm concerned, this is a very special banjo.

Many thanks for all of the positive thoughts. I have been sidetracked this week with other items that needed attention.
I will reread all the posts, speak with some knowledgable players, and make a decision on what i am going to do.
One thing is certain-i will video the opening and share with all of you.
Thanks,
Have a safe weekend.
Marion

quote:

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Originally posted by jimbowilly1960

I'm surprised this banjo hasn't sold? Especially with the cooperation expressed, within the ad, by the seller.
The seller's background. Where it appears to have been stored.

I've worked in the transportation industry for 40+ yrs. From what I see in the pictures and what is being offered by the seller. Unless you can hear parts moving around when the package is being handled? There is more of a chance that nothing is damaged. And it's just the model and year that is holding buyers back from making a purchase.

I love a bit of adventure with a good story behind it. Definitely a conversation piece at jams.

I just hope the transaction is recorded for all of us to see and read about.

Any interested buyers had better not wait too long. As far as I'm concerned, this is a very special banjo.

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What i interpret you trying to express......

You'd like to observe how this story plays out; you'd appreciate seeing the drama unfold...

Just as long as.....it's not your money at risk....not your resources on the gambling table. As long as you have nothing to lose this would be quite enjoyable to watch.....LOL 

So....where is that person willing to throw caution to the wind? It's only $5,500!