Hey all,
i'm in the process of planning my first banjo build. At the moment i am thinking about moving the 5th string tuner to the 6th fret, just to keep the neck a little bit more clear. Are there any major disadvantages to this alternative design? Or is it just tradition to keep the tuner at the 5th?
As i don't play the banjo (yet), i am wondering what the consequences are in terms of different tunings, string tension and playability..
Does it make sense? what do you think?
A tunneled 5th string is probably a far superior solution/approach
yes, that might be true, and i will probably try the tunneled 5th string on my next build. But for this one i want to go another way. I am going to mount a guitar tuner flipped around so that the knob is above the fretboard. Nevertheless i want to shift the whole thing up the fretboard.
Edited by - banjo_maudit on 10/25/2025 09:36:12
Mounting the fifth string tuner at the sixth fret would indeed be a drawback and would probably make playing more difficult.
A fifth string tunnel is a good solution. I’ve reduced the size of the tuning peg knob on my banjo.
If you want to make it standard tuning, having the 5th string peg at the 5th fret means the 1st and 5th strings are the same once you get past the 5th fret. This has all sorts of advantages for playing up the neck, particularly if you want to fret the 5th string with your thumb for melodic runs.
If you place the peg at the 6th fret, your 5th string and 1st string will be a half-step different as you go up the neck past the 5th fret. 1st string 7th fret will be an A, but 5th string 7th fret will be a G#. This will have a major (probably negative) affect on ease of playability up the neck, and make all the typical melodic licks and chords where you fret the 5th string totally different. It might not be insurmountable but it would require a fair amount of adjustment if the player is used to a normal 5th string. It might also open up new possibilities for other licks that require half-step moves, but it's hard to say. And it might not matter if you use alternate tunings, or if you have no intent to use the 5th string for more than a root-note drone.
Overall, without thinking too hard, I would guess it's a net negative on playability. But YMMV.
Edited by - KCJones on 10/25/2025 10:24:42
If you don't fret the 5th string I can't see it making any diff. Even if then think of all of the different tunings the clawhammer crowd uses, the note are mapped totally different but folks do it all the time.
Go for it and do let us know how it worked out for you.
thanks for your answers so far! i forgot to mention: i am building an open back banjo and i am looking forward learning the clawhammer style. how common is it to fret the fifth string?
Edited by - banjo_maudit on 10/25/2025 10:51:25
Moving the 5th string peg ???
That just ain't right.
If it we me who was going to build a 5-string banjo, I think I'd eliminate the 5th-string tuner altogether and instead modify the width of the neck to accommodate the length of the 5th string from the peghead to the bridge. Here's a video that better explains what I'm talking about...
I made a long 5th string neck for one of my friends. He loves it. Wider neck at the nut but once he was used to it he can swap back and forth with standard 5 string necks no problem
If you want to put a capo across all five strings south of the fourth fret i. eg. the fifth or seventh fret, you will have to retune the fifth string, which you do not have to now, even if the fifth string will serve as a quint instead of the first note, but it sounds fine. Steen
I've seen at least one banjo with the 5th peg at the 7th fret. As others have pointed out, effect on playability will depend on whether one frets the fifth string or not - many melodic clawhammer players do, and many others (including me) never do.
I would have more concern with the idea of a guitar tuner mounted so the peg sat above the fretboard. I don't see how this would even work, and think it would definitely be in the way even if it did.
The fifth string peg doesn't get in the way if you play with good technique, i.e., with the thumb behind the neck instead of wrapped over the side.
quote:
Originally posted by buntnesseli am building an open back banjo and i am looking forward learning the clawhammer style. how common is it to fret the fifth string?
It doesn't matter how common fretting the fifth string is in clawhammer. What matters is whether you'll some day want to fret the fifth string. If you do and your fifth string is entering at the sixth fret instead of the fifth, the fingering to accommodate that one-fret difference can become anything from awkward to difficult.
But, sure. If you won't ever fret the fifth string, this is a non-issue.
Srill, I'd throw the question back at you: Seeing as you don't yet play, in what way do you believe your playing will be enhanced by changing an aspect of banjo design that has caused players no discernible problem for around 150 years?
More simply: What is your compelling reason for not keeping the fifth string tuner at the fifth fret?
Well, in pictures of banjos in the 1700s and early 1800s, the fifth peg was quite a bit lower than it is now. Back then all banjos were fretless. In the surviving illustrations it looks always looks like they put the fifth string peg about where we have the 7th fret nowadays.
I spoke with a luthier who also made banjos, and he commonly put his 5th string tuners at the 7th. Depending on the tunes and style that you play you may not have to capo your 5th string if you played a banjo like this.
ok thanks for your input. I thought it would be a good idea, because for me (only guitar player) the 5th peg looks like an obstacle on the neck. But now i decided to stick with the traditional position at least for this first build. Then i can learn the banjo and hopefully make a better decision whether i need the 5th on the 5th or not.
Edited by - banjo_maudit on 10/26/2025 23:58:48
Maybe you want to put the tuner at the tailpiece rather than the neck?
quote:
Originally posted by WobbaWell, in pictures of banjos in the 1700s and early 1800s, the fifth peg was quite a bit lower than it is now. Back then all banjos were fretless. In the surviving illustrations it looks always looks like they put the fifth string peg about where we have the 7th fret nowadays.
It's been around the fifth fret for as long as the banjo has had five strings and a circular rim (meaning Sweeney onward).
quote:
Originally posted by Stu D Baker-HawkIf it we me who was going to build a 5-string banjo, I think I'd eliminate the 5th-string tuner altogether and instead modify the width of the neck to accommodate the length of the 5th string from the peghead to the bridge. Here's a video that better explains what I'm talking about...
I did something similar with a wood top banjo. It is intended to be tuned low. For standard tuning, standard strings and a spike at 5 would be needed.
quote:
Originally posted by buntnesselHey all,
i'm in the process of planning my first banjo build. At the moment i am thinking about moving the 5th string tuner to the 6th fret, just to keep the neck a little bit more clear. Are there any major disadvantages to this alternative design? Or is it just tradition to keep the tuner at the 5th?
As i don't play the banjo (yet), i am wondering what the consequences are in terms of different tunings, string tension and playability..
Does it make sense? what do you think?
Vega beat you to the punch when they created the Excell for Alex Hassilev of The Limeliters, except that his was a long neck so the peg went from the 8th to the 9th fret. Erik Darling had a similar neck made years earlier. Vega would build this option into any of their banjos on special order. There was a $100 upcharge for this since it required a hand-carved neck as the machines weren't set up for this. That was a lot of money in, say, 1963.
Before the Shubb and other side access capos, this was the only way to capo the 5th fret. Alex liked to play C tuning capo'd up to F. I got to ask him about it when opening for The Limeliters in 1991. Because these were hand carved, the Excel has a number of variations including the fact that the hand-written labels used different spellings of Excel or Exel or Excell... There was a wide necked version with star position markers at every position that I really liked.
quote:
Originally posted by mikehalloranquote:
Originally posted by buntnesselHey all,
i'm in the process of planning my first banjo build. At the moment i am thinking about moving the 5th string tuner to the 6th fret, just to keep the neck a little bit more clear. Are there any major disadvantages to this alternative design? Or is it just tradition to keep the tuner at the 5th?
As i don't play the banjo (yet), i am wondering what the consequences are in terms of different tunings, string tension and playability..
Does it make sense? what do you think?Vega beat you to the punch when they created the Excell for Alex Hassilev of The Limeliters, except that his was a long neck so the peg went from the 8th to the 9th fret. Erik Darling had a similar neck made years earlier. Vega would build this option into any of their banjos on special order. There was a $100 upcharge for this since it required a hand-carved neck as the machines weren't set up for this. That was a lot of money in, say, 1963.
Before the Shubb and other side access capos, this was the only way to capo the 5th fret. Alex liked to play C tuning capo'd up to F. I got to ask him about it when opening for The Limeliters in 1991. Because these were hand carved, the Excel has a number of variations including the fact that the hand-written labels used different spellings of Excel or Exel or Excell... There was a wide necked version with star position markers at every position that I really liked.
The description at Frets.com was an enjoyable read!
A fifth string that is open to the nut has interesting tuning possibilities too. making it work in standard tuning, without a spike, might be achievable with a very skinny string. I know .007's are available. I think it would take a .005?
This poorly played demo ends with a run down the open fifth string. Tuning is low A
Edited by - Maurice McMurry on 10/29/2025 13:39:22
