You have learned a great lesson in not messing with a banjo that sounds good. They can be very hard to get back to where they were originally. I imagine that you have changed the tension on the head if everything else the same and you know it so to be. If not the head tension, all I can say is, 'good luck.'

Bobby

I would think you have the banjo head too loose. Drumdial is a good tool to own for learning how tight the head sould be.
You will find every banjo has a sweet spot, depending on banjo head brand/type, strings and bridge.
90 to 91 is a good starting point.
Deering banjos has videos on changing banjo heads, as does Jim Pankey that will help you get it to the right tension.

Yeah I snugged the drum down but without a dial I’m afraid to push it too far. I seen a video that said if it don’t move don’t push it.??

Thanks

A very good head tension is found using a dime and a 6" ruler.
When the ends of the ruler and the dime all contact equally the head tension is on or very near a G# tapped note. with the 2" mark at the bridge.
This provides great banjo tone around 89 on a drum dial) and is perfectly safe from rupture.

Some fixes are essentially free.

Would personally advise against the drum dial. Not because it'll make you a worse player or anything like that, but just because it's another bit of geegaw that you don't need and that won't benefit your playing or tone.

Steve's trick works for a lot of people. Tap tone is a good method. You'll learn how to get your head tension where you want it over time. But a set point like what Steve suggests is definitely a good place to start.

It looks way better with the Remo logo hidden under the tailpiece

m.youtube.com/watch?v=SWOpLfUPR-4

Watch this video it shows how to rebalance ahead. Of course she might have to borrow a drum dial off someone. Good luck.

m.youtube.com/@thefellowshipofacoustics

Watch this video on YouTube, look for Greg Deering showing how to set up a banjo

I think it was StewMac that I first saw in one of their catalogs that showed Dan Erlewine (maybe?) using a straightedge and a coin.
I figured my !0"/quarter and 6"/dime (same tension G#) by finding the combination that produced a G# tapped note because I found it frustrating trying to explain how to hear a tapped note.

I started with hearing the tapped note.The ruler/coin method was an after-thought/teaching tool.
By sending the curious right to a G# note I was hoping that hearing the note might rub off on their ears.

And the quarter/dime isn't meant as a "be all,end all" head tension (though it is the one I prefer),but to land the banjo player smack dab in the middle of a fine working and very popular head tension.
Your personal preference may be to slack it 1/8 of a turn (toward G) once around on the nuts or 1/4 turn tighter to A for a crisper tone.

The dime/ruler is a wonderfully full tone that has great tone from 1 to 22.
I always recommend tightening or loosening the nuts consecutively the same amount on each one be it a 1/4 or a 6th or an 1/8 as this practice raises or lowers the hoop in a level and even manner.

This keeps an even tension across the head.

quote:

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Originally posted by ChunoTheDog

It looks way better with the Remo logo hidden under the tailpiece

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You can remove the logo by gently rubbing it with a cloth soaked in Goof Off.  Remove some, wipe.  Remove some, wipe.  Repeat until you're happy.

Thanks

quote:

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Originally posted by steve davis

A very good head tension is found using a dime and a 6" ruler.
When the ends of the ruler and the dime all contact equally the head tension is on or very near a G# tapped note. with the 2" mark at the bridge.
This provides great banjo tone around 89 on a drum dial) and is perfectly safe from rupture.

Some fixes are essentially free.

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Thanks Steve Davis that helped a ton, next time I know to just leave thugs alone??

Fingernail polish remover will remove a logo in a few seconds.

A drum dial revolutionized my banjo tinkering. When I change a head, it’s even and zeroed in on a known value in a few minutes. Something that used to take me days, of not weeks of frustration to get right. Best banjo accessory I’ve ever bought.

Make sure your bridge isn’t tipped too far foreword or backward.

Make sure your tailpiece isn’t to tight or loose against the tension hoop. Keep in mind that if the tailpiece is in contact with the tension hoop, if you loosen or tighten the head, it will effect how tight or loose your tailpiece is.

Hold the banjo horizontally at eye level, and scan across, to the far side of the head, at how high the tension hoop is above the head. Now turn you banjo while scanning this, and see if the tension hoop stays level all the way around. If it dips high or low, you may want to loosen the head and start over. It’s easy to get lopsided at the start, and only exasperates as you tighten the hook nuts.

Did you use new strings? Older strings may not survive re-tensioning very well.

Did you have to loosen the neck to reposition the head? Co-rods, and neck positioning and seating, can influence banjo tone

Hearing the head note takes 3 seconds.
Measuring with a ruler/dime takes about the same amount of time (after you find a ruler and dime).

quote:

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Originally posted by dcollier

Thanks Steve Davis that helped a ton, next time I know to just leave thugs alone??

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I agree about leaving "thugs" alone.

They're nothing but trouble.

quote:

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Originally posted by dcollier

Yeah I snugged the drum down but without a dial I’m afraid to push it too far. I seen a video that said if it don’t move don’t push it.??

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When you push on the head, what's your reference for how far you're pushing it? Nothing.

That's the reason for coin and stick: it provides a repeatable gauge of the depth of head deflection under string tension. The DrumDial measures it (I believe) as an index against 00 or 100 being flat.

Some people can reliably hear a tap note.

Whatever --

I'm late to the conversation so I'll add my vote for inadequate head tension, possible change in tailpiece adjustment, and maybe even strings if you reused the old ones.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned checking the bridge location. That's the first step.

Head tension can be an issue, sure, but when you hear hooves think horses not zebras. Bad intonation: fix the bridge location.

I was thinking the same thing, so I went back and read his message before I posted, and he said intonation was good. So I chose to take him at his word. But I suppose he could be wrong and it might be worth double-checking his bridge location.

The list is fairly short.
Compare fretted and harmonic at 12 for bridge location.
Dime and ruler for head tension.

Big gadget fan here, apparently. No reason NOT to use a drum dial on the head and a gram scale for your bridges and an electronic tuner. It is the 21st century after all. But learn bridge placement and tuning with helpers such as harmonics and sympathetic vibrations.

The difference between a banjo with precise bridge placement and tuning and one with just sort of "close enough" is like night and day. The whole thing is just jumping in your hands with all strings in sympathy with their brothers on many frets and is a thing to behold.

Even the most modest cheapie banjo can sound pretty terrific when it's really really set up right.

I don't want to get involved in a head tuning war, but I tried the dime/quarter method when I changed the head, and it didn't sound good at all. Eventually I knuckled under and bought a Drum Dial. After calibrating it (takes all of 3 seconds) and running it around the head it was clear why the sound was off - the tension wasn't anywhere near consistent. After using the Drum Dial it sounds much better.

YMMV, whatever makes you happy, etc.

Head tension isn't the only factor in sound, but it's a pretty big one.

I admire the folks skillful enough to tune a head by ear or with a ruler, I wish I could do that. For me, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting. My drum dial has basically eliminated head tension / overtone issues completely. It's night and day. A setup task that used to take 30 minutes and lots of trial/error now takes a couple minutes and works the first time every time. Worth every penny and if it broke I'd buy a replacement immediately. Just my experience, YMMV.

Still gotta check the bridge position regularly. Especially if you're moving the banjo around between sessions.

quote:

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Originally posted by steve davis

A very good head tension is found using a dime and a 6" ruler.
When the ends of the ruler and the dime all contact equally the head tension is on or very near a G# tapped note. with the 2" mark at the bridge.
This provides great banjo tone around 89 on a drum dial) and is perfectly safe from rupture.

Some fixes are essentially free.

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So, in essence, you have put your 2 cents in 5x?  Thanks for the great idea!