Hello! So I'm a novice clawhammer banjo player. Often times when I bum-ditty in open G, it's my understanding that the fifth string can be somewhat discordant with the rest of the strings; they say this is what gives the banjo is characteristic bluegrass sound.
I'm not really going for a bluegrass sound. I want to see what else my banjo is capable of. Does anyone have advice on tunings I could try out? I'd like my fifth string to be in proper chord progression with the rest of the strings.
Thanks!
Don’t overthink it. Dissonant fifth sounds are characteristic of the 5-string banjo—not of any particular style. You’re going to have a discordant 5th because it can’t match every chord. To learn you need to play. If your banjo’s in tune, you’ll be fine.
some notes blend for a peaceful harmony ( simple 1-3 5 chords)others blend but add a bit of other feelings then some are not ready to blend much but act as the best stepping stones between different harmony groups
a lot of this and the choices made are just choices agreed upon and notated by folks thru the years--but also different groups have agreed on different choices so there is not a one size fiits all--imitation and study of others you want to join would help for now-
this is the way i see it -I ask no agreement
as far as tuning the drone--for beginners some folks-- suggest tuning to a note that is one of the three chord notes in the triad that makes up the chord that is the key of the song --
Edited by - Tractor1 on 06/13/2025 13:20:25
Retuning to match the song is a very common practice in banjo music. Almost all banjo players do it, at least a little bit. Common tunings you see:
Also, you can always just retune the 5th string to whatever note you want to fit the key/song.
Also, you can fret the 5th string by wrapping your thumb around the neck, or with your ring/pinky finger, depending on the chord.
There are no rules.
Edited by - KCJones on 06/13/2025 13:49:32
MSV,
You've come to the right place to answer your question.Consider the 5th string much like the constant tone in a Bagpipe no matter the Key the song is in.....Jack Baker
Originally posted by msv133Hello! So I'm a novice clawhammer banjo player. Often times when I bum-ditty in open G, it's my understanding that the fifth string can be somewhat discordant with the rest of the strings; they say this is what gives the banjo is characteristic bluegrass sound.
I'm not really going for a bluegrass sound. I want to see what else my banjo is capable of. Does anyone have advice on tunings I could try out? I'd like my fifth string to be in proper chord progression with the rest of the strings.
Thanks!
Edited by - Jack Baker on 06/13/2025 15:29:31
I like to experiment with lowered drones, especially D in G tuning (dDGBD), and C or E in Double-C (cCGCD - eCGCD). I play clawhammer, but I think these, or other lowered-drone variants, might also produce interesting results in bluegrass picking.
My understand is that the original question is about the 5th string. As a novice, you're not going to fret it. So, it is a drone, i.e., always the same note. The least discord with the chords in a tune comes with tuning it to the 1st or 5th note of the scale. That's the case with standard G tuning and all the tunings listed above. If you stick with the most commonly used kinds of chords, only the two most common of them will include that 5-th string note, which will be "discordant" with all other chords.
"...they say this is what gives the banjo its characteristic bluegrass sound." I think that's wrong on two counts. All 5-string banjo styles feature a drone -- at least to some extent. However, a drone in a guitar rendition doesn't make it sound anything like a banjo.
My insignificant "contribution" ... it's not even clawhammer.... but it's plenty discordant:
I've been on a decade+ long plateau*.... 3241/3241/3241/3241/etc. Periodically I snag the 5th. string. After a jam several years back I mentioned this SNAFU to a fellow jammer.
Fellow jammer: "How often do you use/need the 5th. string?"
Me: "Oh ... hardly any."
Fj: "Well then, why not just take it off?"
* Until "eventually" kicks in .... not a plea for a referral to a teacher/method/program .... just a tidbit/observation from my very inauspicious banjo "journey." 
If it is noticeably wrong (in the moment), don't sound it. It doesn't have to be singing all the time. There are many instances where I give it a rest in any given tune...there are lots of other notes to play!
Depends on what you are playing. Any given note that your 5th string is tuned to, will have the same number of discordant notes. But if you aren't playing those notes,...
Thank you kindly.
quote:
Originally posted by OwenMy insignificant "contribution" ... it's not even clawhammer.... but it's plenty discordant:
I've been on a decade+ long plateau*.... 3241/3241/3241/3241/etc. Periodically I snag the 5th. string. After a jam several years back I mentioned this SNAFU to a fellow jammer.
Fellow jammer: "How often do you use/need the 5th. string?"
Me: "Oh ... hardly any."
Fj: "Well then, why not just take it off?"
* Until "eventually" kicks in .... not a plea for a referral to a teacher/method/program .... just a tidbit/observation from my very inauspicious banjo "journey."
sounds like going for a plectrum banjo (full scale 4-string) would be an option for you.
The function of the fifth string is to be ringing in the background as a drone, so if you don't like the ringing you should learn to play a style without fifth string. Go for plectrum banjo (remove the fifth and play with a plectrum/flatpick), or try classic banjo.
In the key of G and in G tuning the most common chords are G, C and D (or D7). The fifth string is tuned to a high G which is in harmony with all other notes in the G chord. Also with the C chord the fifth string goes along with all notes. The D or D7 chord may be discussed, because the G is not a note in the D or D7 chord, but I think the fifth string gives an extra tension to the chord, but I know that I sometimes may try to avoid the fifth string in the D chord.
Dissonance is not necessarily bad. For example, sawmill tuning is just G tuning with the B string raised one fret (G sus4 chord). Any strum will be dissonant. So don't fret too much. Keep playing and you will likely get used to it. Audiences never seem to notice. The only problem I've had in the 5th string tuning is in trying, and failing, to find a key and tuning for the Jefferson Airplane's song, "White Rabbit." So I just play it on dobro, which is better maybe anyway,
The 5-stringer, along with all of its traditional styles and repertoire, retains enough of its W. African ancestry that it does not fit easily into a European understanding of harmony.
What to do with that unchanging thumb string is an aesthetic challenge. Listen to how the old timers dealt with it-- Wade Ward, Kyle Creed, Maggie Hammons, etc....
Good question. Sometimes the discordant sound bothers me and I either play it softly or experiment with a different tuning or don't play it on certain phrases or play a different string with my thumb. When I don't play the 5th string for that reason, I can play a chord or partial chord on the beat to fill in the sound more. Today I happened to use my thumb on a different string, after playing a B note in double D tuning which is included in a G chord (the IV chord in the key of D) (see tab below), and didn't like the A note of the 5th string at one point, so I did what might be considered an advanced technique with my thumb on the first string, 3rd fret instead of the 5th string and liked the result of hearing that G note. It was as if I has re-tuned the 5th string to a harmonious note.
On the other hand, when there are others playing a "discordant" 5th string or if you're playing with others, it probably won't stand out like when I play solo and am considering every note and sound coming out of the banjo. Since you're a novice player, I think you're doing just fine to try to ignore the discord you're hearing and not play it too loudly.
It might help us if you give a specific tune and tuning, since you're asking for tuning possibilities. Sometimes it has worked for me to tune down the 5th string to match the first string open or the first string 2nd fret or the first string 7th fret. But that sometimes makes a discordant 5th string sound in another part of the tune. Sometimes by playing on my cello banjo, tuned down four or five steps, but playing in equivalent to double C, if the tune was originally in open G on a regular banjo, takes care of the problem; or playing in equivalent to open G on the cello banjo when the tune was originally in double C.
I hope my explanations haven't been confusing for you. IMO you're observant to ask such a question. Truthfully, these are just tips I've figured out on my own. Once I asked a prominent teacher about this issue and was given the simple solution of playing the discordant 5th string anyway. Sometimes I take that advice, but, as Dan Gellert said, it's an "aesthetic challenge" that I look to solve.
I don't know if this is the same thing Janet is talking about, but often times when playing a song in the key of A or D, I will stake the fifth string on the seventh fret. For the key of E I will stake it on the ninth. I'm not saying that always sounds better, but often times it does to my ear. I play a lot up the neck, so I don't know if that is factoring into it. But worth a try to see if it works for you.
Edited by - BG Banjo on 06/25/2025 09:39:52
This only happens if the banjo is not tuned properly and the bridge is not located properly. Setting the bridge in the right location is the key to sounding good no matter what tuning you have. If something is sounding discordant, the banjo needs to be adjusted.
Almost every tuning is designed to make the the banjo ring with wht the 5th string is doing. If your 5th string sounds discordant, either something is wrong with the set up of the banjo, or it is not tuned properly.
The best thing to do is TO FIND SOMEONE WHO PLAYS THE BANJO WITH EXPERIENCE RATHER THAN TYPING HERE. She or he can take a look and give you a solution in 5 minutes. Banjo players are generous and eager to help a new person join the club, and improve their life by becoming a banjoist. Find out where the nearest banjoists are. If there is a bluegrass or old time muisc jam in your area go there.
It is a good idea for a new banjoist to learn. The best way is to take lessons which you can now take not just in erson but on zoom. Dont be the lone ranger! Get with a real banjo player where you are!
Jim Pankey has an clawhammer arrangement of Red Prairie Dawn on YouTube that is in double C but with the 5th string lowered from G to E. It works well, it was new to me.
