I'm more comfortable as a putterer than an "instrument repair person" [cough, cough] ...  I'd be inclined to put some kind of tube /small socket / ??? over the end and apply some force .... like Goldilocks .... not too much, not too little, just right.    [I expect others will disagree with my approach.   ]  Good luck.

Makes me wonder how that got bent in the first place? Drop kick my banjo through the goal posts of life.... banjered

quote:

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Originally posted by Owen

I'm more comfortable as a putterer than an "instrument repair person" [cough, cough] ...  I'd be inclined to put some kind of tube /small socket / ??? over the end and apply some force .... like Goldilocks .... not too much, not too little, just right.    [I expect others will disagree with my approach.   ]  Good luck.

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I would spend the dollar to buy a new one.  Not worth the risk (to me) to try to bend it back into shape.  Especially when you want to put a nut on it.

Thank you kindly.

From my own experience bending back is not a good idea, as it might break and you then can have trouble releasing what remains. Replacement is the way to go.

I don't have any advice RE the lag, but I do not get these fake dowel sticks. Seems like a lot of trouble to do a poor visual imitation of a real dowel. Either use a real dowel, glued in, or use the tried and true version of the rod.

Another vote for replacing the bolt.

But you'll need to learn the size and thread of the machine screw side. I suppose you could contact Ome (now part of Gold Tone) or take the bolt to a hardware store such as Ace or True Value and use their thread tester. Or test it on loose nuts.

....my opinion....

...I disagree with Martin above...why, because the lag screw is a mild steel alloy and it since the threads look clean, and that the lag DOES NOT have a serious kink or bend (meaning only slightly out-of-true), then I would feel fully confident to straighten it > IF < you prepare to do it right. There may or not be complications involved in REPLACING the existing lag with a new one - but I can imagine that there could be.

First, the most important and critical factor is to protect the integrity of the neck heel - meaning, you don't want to make a small issue into a larger issue by inadvertently cracking the heel.

Second (a), I would not trust myself/yourself in straightening the lag in a 'freehand' manner. Before you recoil in horror when I use the word 'vise'...then please read on.

Second (b), the safest way to protect the heel is to securely position the neck and lag in a manner where the lag is captured in the vise BETWEEN the heel and the bend. From the photo I'm guessing you may have 3/4 to 7/8" of lag length BEFORE the bend that could be secured in a vise - a vise that is also securely clamped or bolted to a workbench. And, ensuring that you protect the lag threads accordingly. With the bent lag end extending out and away from the vise jaws you can by several methods apply some light leverage to straighten the lag. A little TLC and nudging is all that's necessary.

If you don't understand how I've described to mount the neck in the vise then stop here and re-read until you do. You do not apply vise pressure to the neck - the vise applies pressure to, and only secures, the 'un-bent' length of the lag.

Third.....IF, on the other hand the lag was bent right as it enters the heel then my suggestion above does NOT apply, plus, there may be some other reason why the lag is bent (likely because the lag hole was not drilled properly to begin with). But, to your advantage you have a section of straight lag that can be vised-up.

IF you have the vise and lag set-up as described then not only is this NOT rocket science but it is a little nuisance job that would take less than 5 minutes.

Saying 'good luck' would be very unfair to you...rather, anything heel related can be dicey/risky/catastrophic/costly, therefore you have to know what you're doing regardless whether you take on my approach here or prefer a different fix - but your success pretty much depends on your shop skills.

Put two nuts on it, tighten them against each other, and use that to see if it will spin out easy. If so, it’s not a big deal, just go to ACE hardware and get a new one.

Thanks for all the feedback on this. It sounds like a pretty approachable problem. I've never done this on a banjo before but the concepts of what to do all make perfect sense to me. If this lag bolt stuck in a random 4x4 post I'd knock it out tomorrow morning without thinking twice about it.

I was checking what the bolts looked like this morning and once i figure out the machine head size and thread pitch at the hardware store it looks like i can pick up a replacement for less than a dollar so i'll probably get one or 2 to have on hand.

I didn't fully remove the neck yesterday so i'll need to figure out what the next steps are to do that. I have another banjo with a dowel stick and it's pretty straight-forward. I wasn't sure of how to do it on this one and didn't want to get in too deep. If anyone knows how the necks on these Ome's are secured i'd love to hear it (and if they go back into place easily also)

The only thing i could come up with as to how this would have happened is that someone was trying to loosen the bolt with the wrong wrench and bent it to get better access to loosen it. Examining it it seems that the bolt is installed straight and that it was bent sometime after the fact so there was some minor trauma at some point ;)

BanjoT1: your description of using the vise makes perfect sense, i feel like if it got into that position i'd probably back out the lag and install a new one, but we'll see.

The good thing here is that the neck is totally straight on the rim, and the action is great so this doesn't appear to have caused any other issue

I have not worked on an Ome, so unsure what thread size you are dealing with, but I have yet to walk into any hardware store and pick up a correct Gibson size lag screw. Hopefully yours will be something common, but if not, ordering a replacement online should not be difficult, once you identify your thread size.

Lag Bolts

Hanger Bolts

I would just call OME/Gold Tone and explain what you see and email pictures.
I bought a used OME, someone thought it was a good idea to use pliers instead of a 1/2" wrench on the coordinator rod nuts. Even thought they are hidden by the resonator, everytime I picked the banjo up I would think about the damage to the nuts. OME uses a special nut on the Co-Rods, so I called them expecting to hear $10 each plus shipping. No, they sent me two for free. Very polite and helpful people at OME/Gold Tone.

quote:

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Originally posted by banjoT1

First, the most important and critical factor is to protect the integrity of the neck heel - meaning, you don't want to make a small issue into a larger issue by inadvertently cracking the heel.

. . . the safest way to protect the heel is to securely position the neck and lag in a manner where the lag is captured in the vise BETWEEN the heel and the bend. 

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I'd say the safest way to protect the heel when bending the bolt is to remove the bolt from the heel completely and only attempt to bend it when it's outside the banjo.

Than you all for the advice.

I'm going to see about sourcing the right part and i'll post an update here once i've swapped it - it might be a few weeks.

....here's a potential problem in replacing the existing bent lag screw:

...that is, first, you would likely need to find something like 2-1/2" x 8-32.......BUT.....
not all lag threads are equal - meaning, that you can't assume all lag screw pitches are identica - because they're not.

Even though you may find a replacement 8-32 lag screw, when comparing the lag end threads of the new store-bought to the bent lag screw lag threads, they might be different.

I'm not saying "don't buy a replacement lag screw" * - rather, just sayin to be aware and mindful. .....why? ....cuz if the lag end thread pitch is a mismatch then when inserting the 'new' one you could actually be enlarging the screw hole and 'scraping' away the original hole thread groove - or, possibly, for some unbeknownst reason, you might crack the heel.

Furthermore, theoretically, if you were to check the Machinist's Handbook it would give proper lag screw thread specifications - but most of those sorts of fasteners nowadays are rolled in China, India, and Lord knows where else - nuf said.

Obviously then, the moral of the story here is even with issues including a 'simple' lag screw you must minimize dependency on 'hope', 'assumption' and 'luck' that your fix will work.

I did not intend this post to enlarge in scope because, geesh, the OP only asked about a simple bent lag screw - how complicated can that be? So, 'sorry' if some readers fail to understand the larger meaning but it's based on my industrial experience and 'oopsies' along the journey.

Notice the asterisk above. So, my original suggestion still holds for all the reasons and unforseens mentioned. Your mistakes, and seeing those of others, will help you to become way smarter and better in the shop and devising workable and effective ideas with lower failure rate. ....end of rant.

Great advice banjoti1, thank you!

I happened to be by my local hardware store today and figured i'd pick up a couple of #8-32 and #10-26 nuts to have on hand for when get around to checking into this again. It turns out that they had #8-32x1.5" and #10-26x2.5" hanger bolts in stock. Earlier today i'd found something online that sort of pointed me towards 10-26x2.5" for this banjo. So i picked up 2 hanger bolts and 4 appropriately sized nuts for $1.10

When I got home i was able to confirm that the machine thread is 10-26 by spinning the machine end of the hanger bolt into the open end of the nut that's installed in the banjo. So some progress there.

I was considering what you note about the loose thead standard for the lag threads so i think my approach will be:
- remove the neck (i figured out how to do that, it's really easy)
- remove the existing lag from the neck by doubling up the nuts and gently backing the lag bolt out
- examine the lag threads between the existing and new bolts (and the length as well)
- I'll mount each of them in a piece of strap wood and see if the threads are compatible, depending on what i find i'll either
o wax up the new one and install it in the neck or
o straighten the existing lag using a vice with the nuts at each end and re-install it.

I might give this a go this week and see if i can get it sorted. I'll let you all know what comes of it.

The good thing here is that the neck is totally straight on the rim, and the action is great so this doesn't appear to have caused any other issue

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Sorry to be the wet blanket, but if the banjo plays well and it is all aesthetic I would apply the old adage: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Truss rods are like skivvies, nobody can see it unless you show them.  Just sayin'.

I dunno Mrs. Spudwheat ........      

Edit: IIRC, the first time I saw that cartoon [or one quite similar ?]  was in a doc's office several decades back.

quote:

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Originally posted by Owen

I dunno Mrs. Spudwheat ........      

Edit: IIRC, the first time I saw that cartoon [or one quite similar ?]  was in a doc's office several decades back.

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I have to laugh because Mom always said that to us kids growing up. We dared not go to the doctor or dentist without showering, washing our hair, brushing our teeth and clean clothes. 

I didn't realize how ingrained this was in me. Until my doctor called and told me, go straight to the emergency room, "they are waiting for you". I did all those things Mom taught us before leaving home. Never said I was Mom's smartest child.

lol, my mom apologized to my dentist once when i apparently hadn't blown my nose before lying back in the chair

I took a shot at fixing this this morning. It took about 45 minutes from start to finish.

It was really easy to back the stud out of the neck. I couldn't do it with my fingers but with light pressure from a wrench it backed right out. I compared the factory stud with the new one I bought yesterday and to banjoT1's point the lag thread is much rougher on the new one and the thread pitch is different (additionally the machine threaded section is shorter and i don't think I would have been able to get the nut back on completely.

I took the factory stud up to the vice and with a couple of nuts locked on the machine thread I was able to get it very close to true. I decided to leave well enough alone and reassembled the banjo after lightly waxing the lag threads.

I'm going to see about sourcing a proper replacement lag to have on hand and at some future date i might throw a toothpick in the hole and install the new stud for a bit tighter fit. The machine nut for the banjo now spins on cleanly and snugs into place nicely with out going in at an odd angle so i consider this operation a success. The banjo's all strung up and in tune and playing great.

In the pictures:
- the top hanger bolt is the factory piece after i straightened it, the bottom one was 51 cents at my local True Value.
- the image of the stud with the nuts on it was right after i removed it from the banjo neck showing the bend that was in it, i'm still unclear how someone would have done that but it had to have just been a failed attempt at accessing it with the wrong wrench.

For future reference the detail of the stud (hanger bolt) for this 2012 Ome Wizard is:

#10-24 x 2-1/2"

I would imagine that builders source these from a standard fastener provider, anyone know of a good provider? This hardware store version has this non-threaded section so i'll keep looking around.

McMaster

oh my gosh, i don't know what i didn't think of them. I even order things from them occasionally. Thank you!

quote:

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Originally posted by jchabalk

For future reference the detail of the stud (hanger bolt) for this 2012 Ome Wizard is:

#10-24 x 2-1/2"

anyone know of a good provider?

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If I can't find it locally, McMaster-Carr is my go to.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/hanger-bolts/thread-mount-studs-for-wood~~/

Thank you kindly.