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I picked up a Deering Golden Era recently and am looking to trade for a Golden Wreath, but a guy messaged me about trading for a 2003 RB-3 reissue with bowties. I'm really unfamiliar with these banjos and most information is about the original models.
Anyone know about the quality of the recent reissues of the RB-3 and how it would compare to the Golden Era? Would this be a step up, or just personal preference due to differences in wood, some specs, etc?
Thanks for your help. This community, and Reddit, are the only people I know who know anything about banjos as a California boy....
I would trade for a -3 Wreath, but a -3 Bowtie is a little unusual.
the deering is worth more the a 2003 rb-3 most rb-3s are in the 3500 range.... the golden eras are slightly more then that..... it all depends on if it sounds like what you are looking for. but like the guy said a bowtie rb-3 is kinda rare unless its a pre war then if he is trading something ain't right
Edited by - 1935tb-11 on 05/13/2025 14:00:05
quote:
Originally posted by lightgaugeI would trade for a -3 Wreath, but a -3 Bowtie is a little unusual.
Ultimately I'm trying to trade my Golden Era for a Golden Wreath (or similar), so I'll likely be still hunting after this trade.
When you say "a little unusual," do you mean that they are more rare, or that they are not that sought after?
quote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11the deering is worth more the a 2003 rb-3 most rb-3s are in the 3500 range.... the golden eras are slightly more then that..... it all depends on if it sounds like what you are looking for. but like the guy said a bowtie rb-3 is kinda rare unless its a pre war then if he is trading something ain't right
My Golden Era is a pre '06, so they dont seem to be going for as much as newer model it seems (with the newer tone ring). I havn't found any ads recently for a bowtie '03 RB-3, so it's hard to compare potential prices. Soundwise, I want a more mellow/ darker tone, similar to Bela Fleck, and I believe his is a mahogany style 75 gibson. Maybe my vernacular is off (I'm new to this level of banjo trading), but I believe it has the bowtie inlays (its definitely not the hearts/ flowers or wreath design).
quote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11the deering is worth more the a 2003 rb-3 most rb-3s are in the 3500 range.... the golden eras are slightly more then that.....
Not according to recent listings here in the Hangout classifieds. Or what the OP paid for his.
Krfoss scored a tremendous below-market find, giving him tremendous flexibility in what he can afford to trade for.
But if the Hangout classifieds are any indication, no one needs to pay $3000 for a used Golden Era. So I think Krfoss should see his Golden Era as worth as little as $2300 and not necessarily as much as $3000.
Krfoss: If I were in your situation (knowing what you have in your GE), I'd want to trade for sound and playability in something I actually wanted. I would be try to strike a deal with someone in which we both left happy with the banjos in our hands and felt we got a good value.
I don't recall the details of your previous discussion here. Maybe some folks thought your GE might be worth double what you supposedly paid. It seems it might not be. It's still "worth" more than you paid. Especially if you clean it up.
I'd be happy to trade it for a Rich era or later RB-3 with an expected inlay. Whether anyone with one of those would want a Golden Era is anyone's guess. Closer in value might be a similar age RB-250 or any number of Sullivan banjos. I think you mentioned Hatfield in your previous discussion. I don't know if those go for under $3000. For some banjos, you might have to bring cash to the deal.
Good luck.
Definitely more rare, if original. No idea on sought after, but I have not heard of anyone looking for that combo.
Is there a chance you are confusing bowtie with "leaves and bows", the standard RB-3 inlay?
Edited by - lightgauge on 05/13/2025 14:39:24
The only reissue Gibson I'm aware of with bowties is the Earl Scruggs 49 Classic, which isn't an RB 3. Usually considered more desirably/expensive than most of the RB 3s.
quote:
Originally posted by lightgaugeDefinitely more rare, if original. No idea on sought after, but I have not heard of anyone looking for that combo.
Is there a chance you are confusing bowtie with "leaves and bows", the standard RB-3 inlay?
That was my thought, too. I have never heard of an RB 3 with bow tie inlays.
quote:
Originally posted by Cullodenquote:
Originally posted by lightgaugeDefinitely more rare, if original. No idea on sought after, but I have not heard of anyone looking for that combo.
Is there a chance you are confusing bowtie with "leaves and bows", the standard RB-3 inlay?
That was my thought, too. I have never heard of an RB 3 with bow tie inlays.
Very possible.... probably likely. Again, I'm not very familiar with these inlay patterns. Thanks for the correction!
Unless you're INVESTING for resale, sit comfortably, BLINDFOLDED, and have some trusted friend hand you each banjo, with them tuned exactly the same.
Play the same song on each, and whichever on FEELS best and SOUNDS best, to YOUR hands and ears, IS best..... to YOU.
Does the banjo look like this? If so, this is the standard RB-3 "leaves and bows" or "ribbons and bows" pattern. Similar to late pre-war RB-75. I'm not sure what the difference is. 1970s and later RB-250 had a similar pattern, but without the pieces at 19 and 22 and it had a fiddle cut. "Bowtie" inlay from 1950s and 1960s Mastertone (plus pre-war top-tension and much later Scruggs 49 Classic) was literal bowties. No mistaking it.
Edited to add: I would trade a Golden Era I obtained way below market for a good condition Rich or later RB-3 any day.
Edited by - Old Hickory on 05/13/2025 15:31:59
quote:
Originally posted by krfossWhen you say "a little unusual," do you mean that they are more rare, or that they are not that sought after?
To clarify: He meant "unusual" in that such a thing is not likely to exist.
On the one hand, we're never supposed to say "never" when it comes to Gibson. But this didn't sound right.
I'd guess that by "bowties" you might be referring to the "Leaves and Bows" inlay pattern (pictured above.) If it has actual bowtie inlays like a 50s/60s RB-250 and it's not a Scruggs 49 classic then steer clear. That being said, if it is a real 2003 Gibson RB-3 without any structural issues then I wouldn't hesitate to make that trade. The Gibson is worth more and, at least for me, I've preferred the sound of those reissue RB-3's to the Golden Eras and the Golden Wreaths I've played, though they are all very high quality great sounding banjos. The Gibson is worth more as well. I've sold a few used Golden Eras on commission and it was really difficult to get much more than $2000-$2250 for them as Deering has made a lot of them and they very easy to find. I know of at least four or five Golden Eras for sale right now.
Edited by - banjo1930 on 05/13/2025 20:16:22
quote:
Originally posted by krfossquote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11the deering is worth more the a 2003 rb-3 most rb-3s are in the 3500 range.... the golden eras are slightly more then that..... it all depends on if it sounds like what you are looking for. but like the guy said a bowtie rb-3 is kinda rare unless its a pre war then if he is trading something ain't right
My Golden Era is a pre '06, so they dont seem to be going for as much as newer model it seems (with the newer tone ring). I havn't found any ads recently for a bowtie '03 RB-3, so it's hard to compare potential prices. Soundwise, I want a more mellow/ darker tone, similar to Bela Fleck, and I believe his is a mahogany style 75 gibson. Maybe my vernacular is off (I'm new to this level of banjo trading), but I believe it has the bowtie inlays (its definitely not the hearts/ flowers or wreath design).
The GE is a good banjo. Don't buy a particular model thinking you will get tone like Bela Fleck. You can get closer maybe with some setup. I have heard him play the GT Bluegrass Heart banjo. He sounds like Bela. I have played one, and it sounded nothing like Bela. YOu can't chase tone buying banjos you haven't played. You'll go nuts and probably lose money. Herb Pedersen used to like a very mellow sound, and he played older Deerings. It's in the setup and the player.
quote:
Originally posted by Brian Murphyquote:
Originally posted by krfossquote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11the deering is worth more the a 2003 rb-3 most rb-3s are in the 3500 range.... the golden eras are slightly more then that..... it all depends on if it sounds like what you are looking for. but like the guy said a bowtie rb-3 is kinda rare unless its a pre war then if he is trading something ain't right
My Golden Era is a pre '06, so they dont seem to be going for as much as newer model it seems (with the newer tone ring). I havn't found any ads recently for a bowtie '03 RB-3, so it's hard to compare potential prices. Soundwise, I want a more mellow/ darker tone, similar to Bela Fleck, and I believe his is a mahogany style 75 gibson. Maybe my vernacular is off (I'm new to this level of banjo trading), but I believe it has the bowtie inlays (its definitely not the hearts/ flowers or wreath design).
The GE is a good banjo. Don't buy a particular model thinking you will get tone like Bela Fleck. You can get closer maybe with some setup. I have heard him play the GT Bluegrass Heart banjo. He sounds like Bela. I have played one, and it sounded nothing like Bela. YOu can't chase tone buying banjos you haven't played. You'll go nuts and probably lose money. Herb Pedersen used to like a very mellow sound, and he played older Deerings. It's in the setup and the player.
i am sorry i had the golden era confused with the golden classic banjo,,, my bad ....getting old
there is a nice RB-75 in the classifieds for 4k with the JD ring in it. only thing is has a hole in the flange where someone probably had a mic in it.
banjohangout.org/classified/108341
Edited by - 1935tb-11 on 05/14/2025 06:42:06
quote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11quote:
Originally posted by Brian Murphyquote:
Originally posted by krfossquote:
Originally posted by 1935tb-11the deering is worth more the a 2003 rb-3 most rb-3s are in the 3500 range.... the golden eras are slightly more then that..... it all depends on if it sounds like what you are looking for. but like the guy said a bowtie rb-3 is kinda rare unless its a pre war then if he is trading something ain't right
My Golden Era is a pre '06, so they dont seem to be going for as much as newer model it seems (with the newer tone ring). I havn't found any ads recently for a bowtie '03 RB-3, so it's hard to compare potential prices. Soundwise, I want a more mellow/ darker tone, similar to Bela Fleck, and I believe his is a mahogany style 75 gibson. Maybe my vernacular is off (I'm new to this level of banjo trading), but I believe it has the bowtie inlays (its definitely not the hearts/ flowers or wreath design).
The GE is a good banjo. Don't buy a particular model thinking you will get tone like Bela Fleck. You can get closer maybe with some setup. I have heard him play the GT Bluegrass Heart banjo. He sounds like Bela. I have played one, and it sounded nothing like Bela. YOu can't chase tone buying banjos you haven't played. You'll go nuts and probably lose money. Herb Pedersen used to like a very mellow sound, and he played older Deerings. It's in the setup and the player.
i am sorry i had the golden era confused with the golden classic banjo,,, my bad ....getting old
You're getting old? I replied to the wrong comment. Buncha old men talking over each other here :-)
quote:
Originally posted by krfoss
I want a more mellow/ darker tone, similar to Bela Fleck, and I believe his is a mahogany style 75 gibson.
Bela plays a genuine pre-war flathead, with a wider and more massive neck, a tall bridge, and a looser than average head. He tends to play away from the bridge.
Plus, he's Bela.
If you want a banjo capable of sound like Bela's, consider the Gold Tone OB-Bela Bluegrass Heart. Designed with his input. He endorses it, and even uses it on stage sometimes.
But it takes more than a banjo to sound like Bela.
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by krfoss
I want a more mellow/ darker tone, similar to Bela Fleck, and I believe his is a mahogany style 75 gibson.Bela plays a genuine pre-war flathead, with a wider and more massive neck, a tall bridge, and a looser than average head. He tends to play away from the bridge.
Plus, he's Bela.
If you want a banjo capable of sound like Bela's, consider the Gold Tone OB-Bela Bluegrass Heart. Designed with his input. He endorses it, and even uses it on stage sometimes.
But it takes more than a banjo to sound like Bela.
Ha! Yah, there's ultimately that "being bela" thing that's going to be an obstacle. Well, I'll keep practicing.
Bela’s -75 is a really really great pot assembly and works really well with the huge neck (none of the copies I’ve played are as thick as his monteleone neck). It’s one of the best banjos I’ve played and one of very few banjos with a neck and super tall bridge like that that I felt really worked. I’ve found a neck like that can kinda mute pot assemblies unless they are super “alive," and those old flatheads tend to be more responsive than other banjos. People can argue over the prewar tone all they want, but I've played a ton of them over the past 20 years and almost all of them had that prewar feel even if I didn't think they sounded particularly special.
You could get closer to that type of sound by bringing your head tension down to F# or so and raising your tailpiece. Depending on how tight the head is now you may have to put a slightly taller bridge on it depending on if the action comes down. I’ve set up at least a dozen golden eras over the years and have had good success setting them up for that darker warmer sound when requested.
Edited by - banjo1930 on 05/14/2025 15:02:49
quote:
Originally posted by banjo1930Bela’s -75 is a really really great pot assembly and works really well with the huge neck (none of the copies I’ve played are as thick as his monteleone neck). It’s one of the best banjos I’ve played and one of very few banjos with a neck and super tall bridge like that that I felt really worked. I’ve found a neck like that can kinda mute pot assemblies unless they are super “alive," and those old flatheads tend to be more responsive than other banjos. People can argue over the prewar tone all they want, but I've played a ton of them over the past 20 years and almost all of them had that prewar feel even if I didn't think they sounded particularly special.
You could get closer to that type of sound by bringing your head tension down to F# or so and raising your tailpiece. Depending on how tight the head is now you may have to put a slightly taller bridge on it depending on if the action comes down. I’ve set up at least a dozen golden eras over the years and have had good success setting them up for that darker warmer sound when requested.
Thanks for the tuning tip. I'll give that a go. I keep seeing videos talk about tuning to G#, but I'll try the F#. To that end, would a no-knot be worth it, or just lift up the tailpiece? I have a heavy bridge coming in the mail, so we'll see what that does to help.
Don’t get a no knot for a bluegrass banjo. Experiment with raising the tailpiece a little, unless it’s already too high.
Head tension is a personal preference. G# seems to be a good starting point. I always end up around a G on my banjos.
This would be a great topic for the set up forum. Early in my banjo journey, I spent several years and lost some money chasing tone, before I fully understood how set up can change a banjo’s tone. I went from a Deering Sierra, to Calico, to Gibson ESS, before realizing I could have made any of them sound the way I wanted, and should have stuck with the Sierra.
If the GE is pre 06, I would start by making sure the tone ring is a slip fit. Then go from there with tailpiece adjustments, bridges, head tension, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by Dean TThis would be a great topic for the set up forum. Early in my banjo journey, I spent several years and lost some money chasing tone, before I fully understood how set up can change a banjo’s tone. I went from a Deering Sierra, to Calico, to Gibson ESS, before realizing I could have made any of them sound the way I wanted, and should have stuck with the Sierra.
If the GE is pre 06, I would start by making sure the tone ring is a slip fit. Then go from there with tailpiece adjustments, bridges, head tension, etc.
I'm reading about the tone ring removal process. Once the ring is removed, what grit paper to sand? Sand on the inside or outside walls of the pot? Once done, how easily should it slide on? Once on, should I be able to twist it around the rim? Pardon the 20 questions. Thanks for the help.
Not really the kind of thing you want to mess with. The things Gabe is suggesting are fine and fixable/reversible. Taking off wood is really lathe work because it has to be done evenly.
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