“Sinners” is a remarkable movie with lots of deep, cultural references, and lots of things to think about for those who like to think deeply about films. It is sure to garner multiple Academy Award nominations.
Music plays a huge role and includes blues and old time music and beyond. Clog dancing as well! The CD made from the music of this film is destined to be a big seller.
But, (spoiler alert) wouldn’t you know, the Devil features prominently in the second half of this film and he happens to be a Banjo player. And the vampires that are sucking the blood out of the town's people happen to be darn good old time and Celtic music players and dancers.
This is, perhaps, a milestone for Banjo aficionados. More typically, these days, the Devil, if he's musical, is portrayed as a fiddle player or guitar player. But this one happens to be, blatantly, a Banjo player, showing up with an open-back confidently slung over his shoulder. I wouldn’t say he’s the best Banjo player I’ve heard, but he’s decent. Happily, there’s no dueling banjo scenes in this.
But considering how much an earlier movie called Deliverance stirred up the Banjo community with a single tune, I’m wondering what effect this latest portrayal of a Banjo player will have. It is not a particularly good look.
As good a movie as this is, i'd say it's a little problematic when it comes to the Banjo. Trust me, if you're a Banjo player and see this movie you'll feel what I'm talking about .
Sinners is definitely a movie worth discussing, so if anyone has seen the movie and wants to give their take on it regarding Banjos, cultural/musical appropriation , or anything else, please go for it.
Edited by - David Ciaffardini on 04/29/2025 08:55:32
You've just put it on my "must see" list.
Does it at least have a happy ending? So many these days have s***ty endings.
I heard the NPR interview with producer/director Ryan Coogler and thought I should go see the movie, because his thinking is, to me, different enough to warrant attention. But I don't like movies that much. However, now knowing that a banjo plays prominently in the movie, I'm all in. And Hornet, you're right, too many s***ty, sad, preachy-themed movies, books, TV series, and news articles. At least during the Depression they had preachy-themed movies and books where the good guys (and gals) won.
Historically, religion has consistently placed any popular object or instrument in the hands of their bad guy character. Popular culture and music are easy targets for moral panic and outrage.
And popular culture is usually quick to have some fun with this evil character association, sometimes even embracing the concept.
Attached below is an example from the "classic era" of the 1880s.
These sort of "meet the devil" encounters seem to particularly be associated with (though not always) Black musicians of exceptional skill and musicianship. I speculate that it was easier to accept the explanation of a magical encounter with a supernatural character rather than the concept of hard work and innovative/intelligent learning.
Joel Hooks, do we know the origin of this Weston story? Did he foster it himself, for the sake of publicity?
I'm reminded of similar legends about Paganini, though I see your point about black musicians in this context.
quote:
Originally posted by Ira GitlinJoel Hooks, do we know the origin of this Weston story? Did he foster it himself, for the sake of publicity?
I'm reminded of similar legends about Paganini, though I see your point about black musicians in this context.
I think Weston came up with it, or perhaps experienced it. Weston was a human like all of us, and there is evidence that he suffered from addiction problems, mainly booze, but also likely other things. The evidence was that he suffered greatly from injuries he sustained while serving in the navy for the Union during the ACW. The story could have been influenced by substances.
Most of what we have about Weston, and all the music we have, is due to S. S. Stewart. People love to hate on Stewart (often misquoting him or inventing slanted narratives because he does not fit into their neat "folklore" ideal), but it is because of him that we have "recordings" (in notation) of Weston's music. Stewart may not have realized he was preserving Black banjo music at the time when it was fairly well ignored by publishers and "the industry". But I thank him for it just the same.
The story and poem were published by SSS.
The movie is meh. It's not going to make any type of lasting cultural impact at all and will be forgotten within a year.
I'm more curious if OP wrote the text in the original post, or if it's AI/LLM (eg ChatGPT) output.
Joel Hooks, interestingly, we do have a modern example of the "deal with devil" story. Billy Strings has been accused on several occasions of being part of "the occult globalist cabal", and being a servant the devil. There was even a couple threads here, where multiple BHO members made unironic accusations of "devilish subtext" in his lyrics and social media posts, unfortunately those threads were locked, so the parties that made those accusations have been saved from the continued shame of such bad behavior. Billy Strings isn't black, but he does have long hair and smoke pot, which seems to be the same category for the type of people that care about that sort of thing, which is why I figure he receives chagrin from the "old guard", as it were.
Edited by - KCJones on 04/29/2025 09:25:21
To KCJones; I don’t know if I should consider that a compliment or not, you suggesting that my original and completely composed by myself,writing is equal to the best that AI/ChatGPT can produce.
I’m absolutely sure that there will be many people who criticize this movie for any number of reasons. Ironically, that will be a measure of its significance. Of course, there will be many people who will be vague and lackluster about their criticism, not wanting to look completely foolish when this movie proves to be the most talked about movie of the year, something I think it’s already achieved.
But, it is just a movie… about music and culture and race relations— and to a minor degree the history and legacy and irony of the instrument that we all love so well, the Banjo.
Edited by - David Ciaffardini on 04/29/2025 10:42:21
By the way,KCJones, have you seen the entire film? Sometimes people make strident comments about movies after only seeing the trailers or hearing discussion about it. But if you actually have seen it, I’d be curious if you have any commentary that would make clear that you have seen it and what about the film inspired you to go out to see it and thentake the extra effort to boldly and publicly give it your "MEH" rating. And if you haven’t seen it, that’s OK too.
Edited by - David Ciaffardini on 04/29/2025 10:57:52
My comment about the movie being inconsequential is minimally related to it's value as an actual piece of entertaining cinema. It is entertaining, for sure. The dialogue is decent, the acting is just okay. The direction is kinda questionable, it's not bad, it's just a product of the era in which it was created and this is simply not an era of amazing cinematography on the big screen.
I say the movie will be inconsequential based on, well, direct observation of reality. Nobody is talking about it. It's not making waves. This is the first time I've seen a thread created for it, and I'm chronically online. It's not going to win any Acadamy Awards... It's a horror movie, and other than a few seminal titles, horror movies have never had a large cultural impact or won many awards. It's not really even a thriller it's a straight-up horror flick. Fact is, that's a very niche category and horror movies by-and-large are not culturally impactful long term. Deliverance was a thriller starred John Voight and Burt Reynolds. Sinners is full of B-list actors nobody has ever heard of, the biggest name is Michael B Jordan who is a mid-level 'small screen' actor who's seen limited success on the big screen and is mostly famous for his work as a child actor on television. Also, and I hate to be blunt but this is just the reality of the situation, it is by-and-large a "black movie", and the parts of it that aren't "black" are related to the "deep south", and at least in the US, in 2025, that means it's not going to reach a significant part of the population, so it will have limited impact.
It's a good movie. It's worth watching once or twice. It will gain "cult" status for a small portion of people (possibly me, I need to rewatch it). Nobody, outside the people that really love it, will remember it in 5 years. Just my prediction. Maybe I'm wrong.
To your original point. The devil being a banjo player, in a big movie? There's no such thing as bad publicity, I say. Any exposure is good exposure. And being associated with the devil seems to be a great way to encourage young people to be interested in stuff nowadays.
Edited by - KCJones on 04/29/2025 12:19:50
KCJones: you may need to get out more. After being in release for about 10 days:
As of April 28, 2025, 'Sinners' has grossed approximately $128.7 million in the United States and Canada, and $39.8 million internationally, totaling around $168.5 million worldwide.
This suggest millions of people have already paid to watch this movie in the first two weeks. It is a cultural phenomenon. But your reaction trying to downplay the significance is not surprising. In fact, there are already many articles and videos published trying to do the same thing. More evidence of its significance.
You bring up a good point essentiallyasking how many white people are going to pay to see a horror movie overtly criticizing aspects of white mainstream culture, written and directed by a black man. Apparently quite a few, and that’s another reason for this movie’s historical and financial significance. But yeah, there will be plenty of people trying to put it down and denigrate it, especially because it’s so stridently speaks up for the concerns, fears and frustrations of blacks in America.There will be some people who will not like this one bit.
I’m white and I haven’t seen a horror movie in decades, not even those softcore vampire flicks. But I was quick to venture out to see this movie in a theater along with a lot of others who might not have been the target audience for this film.
This is already the most talked about film this year. Maybe not in Banjo circles, but in the culture in general. In fact, I think the demographics of Banjo players makes that one of the least likely demographics to attend a movie like this. But many of them will end up seeing this movie. I guarantee it. And many of them, like you, will consider seeing it a second time. I think that’s significant. There’s a lot to unpack with this movie and to suggest it’s just a shallow teen horror flick is missing the point. Stating that viewpoint publicly is likely to discourage people from seeing the movie who otherwise might find it not only entertaining but intellectually stimulating, and an artistic and cultural milestone in America. The timing, apparently, is right on.
Edited by - David Ciaffardini on 04/29/2025 13:01:04
quote:
Joel Hooks, interestingly, we do have a modern example of the "deal with devil" story. Billy Strings has been accused on several occasions of being part of "the occult globalist cabal", and being a servant the devil. There was even a couple threads here, where multiple BHO members made unironic accusations of "devilish subtext" in his lyrics and social media posts, unfortunately those threads were locked, so the parties that made those accusations have been saved from the continued shame of such bad behavior. Billy Strings isn't black, but he does have long hair and smoke pot, which seems to be the same category for the type of people that care about that sort of thing, which is why I figure he receives chagrin from the "old guard", as it were.
The Christmas photo he posted of himself with "Satan Clause" wasn't a good look. Nor forgetting a key lyric while singing "I saw the light". Only time I personally ever saw him "forget" a lyric. Not sure if those posts are what you call bad behavior, but factually it happened and I shared the info. People can take from it what they will.
quote:
Originally posted by KCJonesThe movie is meh. It's not going to make any type of lasting cultural impact at all and will be forgotten within a year.
I'm more curious if OP wrote the text in the original post, or if it's AI/LLM (eg ChatGPT) output.
Joel Hooks, interestingly, we do have a modern example of the "deal with devil" story. Billy Strings has been accused on several occasions of being part of "the occult globalist cabal", and being a servant the devil. There was even a couple threads here, where multiple BHO members made unironic accusations of "devilish subtext" in his lyrics and social media posts, unfortunately those threads were locked, so the parties that made those accusations have been saved from the continued shame of such bad behavior. Billy Strings isn't black, but he does have long hair and smoke pot, which seems to be the same category for the type of people that care about that sort of thing, which is why I figure he receives chagrin from the "old guard", as it were.
Yeah, the review does have that polished, slick kind of AI vibe. On the other hand, that's what people are reading more and more and will start copying that style either consciously or unconsciously.
On the Billy Strings issue, the "old guard" needs to listen to the Billy Strings and Bryan Sutton "Live at the American Legion" recording. Took me right back to the early 70's. Oh wait, the abilty to perform that type of magic would indicate the possibility of a supernatural connection.
Here you go: x.com/BillyStrings/status/1209...039796738
He posed for the photos and posted them on his Twitter / X account. They are still up and to the best of my knowledge he has never said or done anything publicly to denounce. Not somebody I want to lift up regardless of musical ability but you decide for yourself. I will try to follow people who don't celebrate Satan.
Being accused of Satanism is a classic sign that you've truly "made it" in the country music world. A great tradition going back probably to the beginning. High praise from Mr. Hornet, I'd say. I wonder if Mr. Strings would receive the same criticism if he was a clean shaven good ole boy from Alabama. I bet not.
Again, back to the OP. I wouldn't say Satan being portrayed as a banjo player is problematic, although it's the first time I've seen him with something other than a fiddle or guitar. To me, that's a good sign, it means that the banjo is getting the same prominence and recognition that guitar and fiddle have in our culture. Although if accuracy was their goal, it probably should have been an accordion.
KC, please forgive me, but I remain incredulous when you suggest you have seen this movie in its entirety.
Sure, common sense might tell you that any publicity for the Banjo Is good publicity. But if there was a case against it, I think the sinners movie would be a prime example. The movie plays on stereotypes about banjos being associated with southern state bigotry. There might be good reasons for this, but I think it is still questionable as to how the depiction in this movie will affect people.
I live in Mississippi. Do your research. Of all the states in the nation this is the one where it is hardest to find banjos of any kind or banjo lessons or bluegrass festivals, etc. Mississippi has lots of wonderful and fantastic, blues festivals, but you ain't gonna find much Bluegrass here. In fact, if you do, please let me know and I'll be all over it because I'm starved for Bluegrass jams here in the Mississippi Delta.
I’ve walked the streets in Mississippi with my Banjo, and you would not believe the curiosity it creates in people. I’ve had people in Mississippi ask me what kind of instrument it was. All the states surrounding Mississippi have some smattering at least of Bluegrass or Banjo culture. You’ll find nearly none of that in Mississippi for reasons too complex to go into right here. But I can pretty much guarantee you that among my neighbors in the African-American communities, this movie will not endear the Banjo to them. There might be a few exceptions, and I hope there will be. There's lots of good music in this movie, music of all kinds.
Edited by - David Ciaffardini on 04/30/2025 09:32:12
quote:
Originally posted by David CiaffardiniKC, please forgive me, but I remain incredulous when you suggest you have seen this movie in its entirety.
Sure, common sense might tell you that any publicity for the Banjo Is good publicity. But if there was a case against it, I think the sinners movie would be a prime example. The movie plays on stereotypes about banjos being associated with southern state bigotry. There might be good reasons for this, but I think it is still questionable as to how the depiction in this movie will affect people.
I live in Mississippi. Do your research. Of all the states in the nation this is the one where it is hardest to find banjos of any kind or banjo lessons or bluegrass festivals, etc. Mississippi has lots of wonderful and fantastic, blues festivals, but you ain't gonna find much Bluegrass here. In fact, if you do, please let me know and I'll be all over it because I'm starved for Bluegrass jams here in the Mississippi Delta.
I’ve walked the streets in Mississippi with my Banjo, and you would not believe the curiosity it creates in people. I’ve had people in Mississippi ask me what kind of instrument it was. Some have asked if they can touch it.
All the states surrounding Mississippi have at least a smattering of Bluegrass or Banjo culture. You’ll find none of that in Mississippi for reasons too complex to go into right here. But I can pretty much guarantee you that among my neighbors in the African-American communities, this movie will not endear the Banjo to them. There might be a few exceptions, and I hope there will be. There's lots of good music in this movie, music of all kinds.
