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Apr 19, 2025 - 8:23:37 PM
341 posts since 4/19/2024

I play very slowly. I usually can’t handle a song (I only play two) at more than about 45-55 beats per minute. At 60 beats per min I usually break down completely. I’ve been playing Polly put the kettle on for about 13 months now a minimum of 20 times per day with a lot of practice of the breaks and using strum machine but I just can’t get much faster.

The reason I’m asking is because I was planning to attend a boot camp coming up with an instructor on Patreon and the demonstration of the song we are to learn in slow mode was 120 bpm and it was a blur to me trying to hear it. I’ve tried speeding up with various methods but it’s very hard for me to do. When I listen to most songs on YouTube or here I get completely lost as they seem to play hundreds of notes and I just can’t hear them or count them fast enough to know what’s coming next. An example is Polly put the kettle on which I have played for more than a year. When I hear others play it faster it isn’t even recognizable to me as a song. I try to count faster and make the notes come faster but I feel like I keep hitting a threshold of what I can remember and regurgitate by playing.

Apr 19, 2025 - 9:16:56 PM
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tonygo

USA

210 posts since 12/29/2022

Try another tune. Speed is overrated. Playing slow lets you put a bit of yourself into it. Take advantage of your lack of speed to put some depth into it and play it like you mean it. As the martial artists say "Slow is Smooth and Smooth is Fast" it is a little vague but it turns out to be true.

Apr 20, 2025 - 11:36:34 AM
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pinenut

USA

236 posts since 10/2/2007

Two tunes at ~60 bpm is a reasonable skill progression at 13 months for an adult with no prior musical training.

Work a bum ditty, to higher speed (with a metronome or not) and add occasional chord changes to reduce boredom. Good luck.

Apr 20, 2025 - 1:20:52 PM
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dbrooks

USA

4886 posts since 3/11/2004

The versions of "Polly Put th Kettle On" that I am familiar with seem to be unlikely candidates for a first (or second or third. . .) tune. Your instructor may have a simpler arrangement for you.  Still, I suggest starting with with a tune that you can already hum or whistle, like "I"ll Fly Away" or "You are My Sunshine."  Have a discussion with your teacher about a simpler, more familiar tune. I'm not sure I can hum "Polly Put a Kettle On."

David

Apr 20, 2025 - 5:29:50 PM
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359 posts since 9/5/2013

To echo others' comments: it isn't speed that matters -- it's the rhythm, the "feel," the "groove." Start with that, and speed, if the music requires it, will come with repetition and familiarity.

Apr 21, 2025 - 4:20:53 AM
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carlb

USA

2681 posts since 12/16/2007

Some speed matters when you're playing for a square dance.

Apr 21, 2025 - 6:39:14 AM
Players Union Member

Rusty

USA

285 posts since 1/9/2007

Stop thinking about notes, chords, keys and just be one with the music, speed will come for the tunes that need to be at speed. Embrace the musicality versus the technical.

Apr 21, 2025 - 11:14:11 AM
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79 posts since 9/1/2024

Do you love the song? Can you hum the song after this time has elapsed? Find a simple song that you love. This way you’ll know what sound is coming next. If you’r you’ve been practicing for over a year, it might not be the song for you. Speed will come with muscle memory. Work on rhythm. smiley

Apr 21, 2025 - 8:19:04 PM

341 posts since 4/19/2024

I’ve found I can’t hum. I can’t even remember the tune or recognize it without the notes in front of me. I mentioned this in another part of the forum but I scheduled and took a diagnostic for amusia and I was found to be very deficient in most ways of rhythm, distinguishing songs, repeating songs, matching and distinguishing tone and pitch and recognizing meter. It’s been described as colorblindness for music. The only thing I was successful at in the diagnostic was memorizing patterns which I do quite well with the notes in tab and my sing. But every time I play I have to remember each and every note to the song. I never thought of it before but I’ve always thought of music in terms of “I don’t understand what the big deal is”. I’ve probably played that song 5000 times and I can’t even think of how it starts without it being in front of me. And I certainly can’t hum it or play it. Same thing with popular tunes like happy birthday or twinkle star. And I always thought it was normal and that somehow everyone else had just memorized the whole songs. But no, I don’t really love the song or hate it. It just is a song like any other. I hear music and it sounds like many notes and then it’s gone. I can absolutely memorize a long list of notes and with practice play it back with timing and emphasis but I can’t think of how the song goes as a reference. It just is what it is for me. That’s not a crutch as I’m doing everything I can to practice and play banjo but when I hear music I have no idea how to hear how it’s put together or how it sounds. It just doesn’t make sense.

Apr 22, 2025 - 12:56:27 PM
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159 posts since 7/31/2012

quote:
Originally posted by jsinjin

I’ve found I can’t hum. I can’t even remember the tune or recognize it without the notes in front of me. I mentioned this in another part of the forum but I scheduled and took a diagnostic for amusia and I was found to be very deficient in most ways of rhythm, distinguishing songs, repeating songs, matching and distinguishing tone and pitch and recognizing meter. It’s been described as colorblindness for music. The only thing I was successful at in the diagnostic was memorizing patterns which I do quite well with the notes in tab and my sing. But every time I play I have to remember each and every note to the song. I never thought of it before but I’ve always thought of music in terms of “I don’t understand what the big deal is”. I’ve probably played that song 5000 times and I can’t even think of how it starts without it being in front of me. And I certainly can’t hum it or play it. Same thing with popular tunes like happy birthday or twinkle star. And I always thought it was normal and that somehow everyone else had just memorized the whole songs. But no, I don’t really love the song or hate it. It just is a song like any other. I hear music and it sounds like many notes and then it’s gone. I can absolutely memorize a long list of notes and with practice play it back with timing and emphasis but I can’t think of how the song goes as a reference. It just is what it is for me. That’s not a crutch as I’m doing everything I can to practice and play banjo but when I hear music I have no idea how to hear how it’s put together or how it sounds. It just doesn’t make sense.


This is somewhat off-topic, but do you have any trouble memorizing words (poetry, famous quotes, etc.)? If not, you might try experimenting with transforming notes into spoken syllables/words. Solfege (do re mi...) is the most common. It also has corresponding hand motions.

Apr 22, 2025 - 1:10:01 PM

Owen

Canada

17004 posts since 6/5/2011

Coincidence or what!?!?    ^^ I was just wondering about "my dog has fleas" and whether or not it might have some relevance. I.e.  pick/sing (?) it .... not necessarily with the correct notes, but just with the voice pitch (?) rising with each string.

However, having said that, my experience/observation is that feeling the rhythm, the groove, or being able to hum along, or tap one's toes in time with the music, etc., etc.  are all-well-and-good, and I expect they're factors in the rate at which some learn, but they don't make up for a missing "musical spark."    [Apparently not everybody agrees with me.  C'est la vie. wink  ]

Edit: John, when you say can't hum, do you mean can't hum period, or can't hum a tune?

Edited by - Owen on 04/22/2025 13:13:21

Apr 22, 2025 - 1:30:22 PM

341 posts since 4/19/2024

quote:
Originally posted by Owen

Coincidence or what!?!?    ^^ I was just wondering about "my dog has fleas" and whether or not it might have some relevance. I.e.  pick/sing (?) it .... not necessarily with the correct notes, but just with the voice pitch (?) rising with each string.

However, having said that, my experience/observation is that feeling the rhythm, the groove, or being able to hum along, or tap one's toes in time with the music, etc., etc.  are all-well-and-good, and I expect they're factors in the rate at which some learn, but they don't make up for a missing "musical spark."    [Apparently not everybody agrees with me.  C'est la vie. wink  ]

Edit: John, when you say can't hum, do you mean can't hum period, or can't hum a tune?

 

 


It's hard to explain.  I can hum as in make noises but I can't hum a song or remember it or make it sound like a song.  Songs and music sound like just noise to me.   I don't recognize tunes or songs when they are played and I don't really sing along.   I just pretend to if I'm at church's or other places where singing happens.   I can't tap out a rhythm very well if at all.   Music all sort of sounds the same to me or could be anything the same.   Hearing a tune once or a hundred times doesn't mean I'll remember it.  To play a song for me in banjo means committing the notes to memory fret by fret and finger movement by finger movement note by note.   I've learned some parts repeat and I nickname parts of the song.   But if you asked me to judge between happy birthday and stairway to heaven both played on piano I would have a 50:50 shot without the words.   I get all lost mentally trying to hum or tap out a song.   
 

to learn a song on banjo I convert the tablature to actual notes in the format of sheet music which has both the note and time.   I have memorized the frets and notes for each fret in multiple keys for banjo at multiple strings.  To learn a song I repeat each part hundreds or thousands of times saying the notes to myself first out loud then gradually in my head.  
 

otherwise if I have a song and don't know the notes or pattern I can't start.   It's a total guessing game if I don't have it memorized.   I think that's why I hated the jam sessions I attended.  It all just sounds like fast moving gibberish without context of the actual notes and timing.   The pattern of the song makes no sense to me at all.  If it wasn't for jimmy page's distinctive voice I wouldn't be able to name a song by Led Zeppelin if you played music.  
 

as far as poetry goes absolutely I know poetry.  It's very easy for me to memorize and learn books and text.  I don't have a photographic memory but if I'm trying to remember something in a book I can recall it nearly perfectly if I pay attention.  It really helped in organic and advanced organic and biochem and a lot of taxonomic biology classes in college.   But most poems come very easy to me as text and information.  I can remember lyrics if I read them.   I try not to use tablature as that's heavily discouraged in banjo so I've developed my own notation of translation from tab to sheet music with memorization then learning to play each chunk from memory.   The sheer music coupled with a metronome helps me keep the timing for what I memorize since the notes on the sheet music contain the length of the note for the time signature.

 

Thats how I do it currently.

Apr 22, 2025 - 2:51:28 PM

pinenut

USA

236 posts since 10/2/2007

"as far as poetry goes absolutely I know poetry." Can you vocalize Shakespeare in iambic pentameter?

Apr 22, 2025 - 3:26:39 PM
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Owen

Canada

17004 posts since 6/5/2011

Tongue-in-cheek Kam, surely there's a stereotypical banjo joke in there ^^ somewhere. 

Eg.:  "Nah, I already told ya ... I'm a banjo player!"  devil

Apr 22, 2025 - 4:06:42 PM

341 posts since 4/19/2024

quote:
Originally posted by pinenut

"as far as poetry goes absolutely I know poetry." Can you vocalize Shakespeare in iambic pentameter?


Probably not.  I can definitely say several sonnets and mercutios parts from high school English.   Probably can't read that now in high school with all the sex.

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