What, to you, is the difference (if any) between a reel and a breakdown?
I figure they’re one and the same,, called a reel up nawth, and a breakdown down so'th in bygone times. For example, the Snowflake Reel,,also named the Snowflake Breakdown.
(just my semi-educated guess)
Edited by - chuckv97 on 04/15/2025 23:47:24
Syncopation? Maybe both in 4/4 time, but reels tend to be straight 8 notes to the bar, and breakdowns have occasional interruptions in the flow (eg the hallmark E minor arpeggio notes in FMB, and also in Hickory Hollow). Just my theory, but I note that some tunebooks tend to group breakdowns with ragtime tunes, rather than say Celtic reels.
Typically, both are in 2/4 time, but I think that a breakdown is expected to be played at a much faster tempo. I think the difference in tempo is the salient issue.
The tempo for Tommy Jackson's version sounds like a reel to me. If had to play the banjo on the version by Bobby Hicks, I would consider it to be a breakdown.
Edited by - RB3 on 04/16/2025 06:14:21
....breakdown?? .... reel??
Tongue-in-cheek, isn't the more important point/question how "snowflake" finds its way into the name? 
I remember years ago when I saw Earl's Breakdown I thought something happened to Earl. I got all sad !!
I thought a "reel" is a type of dance, and "reel" is also used to describe the music played for that type of dance. Similar to how we use jig, or hornpipe.
Breakdown is a form of a break. It's just that, the elements of the music are broken down to highlight specific parts. Hallmarks of a breakdown are increased tempo, dropping any lyrics and playing only instrumental, dropping the rhythm section entirely during a lead break, and highlighting specific instruments/players.
Edited by - KCJones on 04/17/2025 05:23:53
quote:
Originally posted by KCJonesI thought a "reel" is a type of dance, and "reel" is also used to describe the music played for that type of dance. Similar to how we use jig, or hornpipe.
Breakdown is a form of a break. It's just that, the elements of the music are broken down to highlight specific parts. Hallmarks of a breakdown are increased tempo, dropping any lyrics and playing only instrumental, dropping the rhythm section entirely during a lead break, and highlighting specific instruments/players.
The breakdown you are referencing is a part of a tune or song ie: bridge, verse, chorus, break, breakdown, intro, etc.
Breakdown when used as a classification of a tune like: ballad, jig, reel, breakdown, hornpipe; has a different meaning.
quote:
Originally posted by RB3Typically, both are in 2/4 time, but I think that a breakdown is expected to be played at a much faster tempo. I think the difference in tempo is the salient issue.
The tempo for Tommy Jackson's version sounds like a reel to me. If had to play the banjo on the version by Bobby Hicks, I would consider it to be a breakdown.
Snowflake Breakdown - Bobby Hicks
I might be a bit over-sensitive these days being Canadian but check out the first lines in the description ... lol
quote:
Originally posted by Owen....breakdown?? .... reel??
Tongue-in-cheek, isn't the more important point/question how "snowflake" finds its way into the name?
It's nothing to do with soft, left-leaning , tree-hugging type folks,,, some claim Canadian fiddler Wally Traugott wrote the tune... Tony Trischka in his book of fiddle tunes for banjo humorously opined that the stark chord change in the B part denoted snow clouds suddenly parting to let the sunshine through. (paraphrasing)
quote:
Originally posted by 250gibsonquote:
Originally posted by KCJonesI thought a "reel" is a type of dance, and "reel" is also used to describe the music played for that type of dance. Similar to how we use jig, or hornpipe.
Breakdown is a form of a break. It's just that, the elements of the music are broken down to highlight specific parts. Hallmarks of a breakdown are increased tempo, dropping any lyrics and playing only instrumental, dropping the rhythm section entirely during a lead break, and highlighting specific instruments/players.The breakdown you are referencing is a part of a tune or song ie: bridge, verse, chorus, break, breakdown, intro, etc.
Breakdown when used as a classification of a tune like: ballad, jig, reel, breakdown, hornpipe; has a different meaning.
A 'break' isn't the same type of musical division as a chorus/verse/bridge. You can have a lead break during a chorus, or during a verse, or during a bridge. They're different concepts.
A breakdown is a breakdown, different than a break contextually, but nonetheless it's still different flavors of the same thing. A standalone "breakdown" tune in bluegrass is simply a tune made exclusively of lead breaks played at high speed. A cursory review of popular bluegrass 'breakdowns' will confirm this.
This is really a question of etymology, not music. A reel is a dance, and we also use the term 'reel' to describe the tunes played for that dance. The term "reel" has a long history going back to Scotland, and has a relatively 'firm' definition that's by-and-large not up for debate. A breakdown is not a dance at all, and is more of a modern colloquial term to describe a style of instrumental song performed during a stage show to showcase musical skill for an audience. It's not really comparing apples to apples.
Reel, Jig, Ballad, Hornpipe, Schottische... these are very old terms for types of dances, with relatively established definitions. Breakdown is not in the same category at all.
Edited by - KCJones on 04/17/2025 07:38:56
quote:
Originally posted by KCJonesquote:
Originally posted by 250gibsonquote:
Originally posted by KCJonesI thought a "reel" is a type of dance, and "reel" is also used to describe the music played for that type of dance. Similar to how we use jig, or hornpipe.
Breakdown is a form of a break. It's just that, the elements of the music are broken down to highlight specific parts. Hallmarks of a breakdown are increased tempo, dropping any lyrics and playing only instrumental, dropping the rhythm section entirely during a lead break, and highlighting specific instruments/players.The breakdown you are referencing is a part of a tune or song ie: bridge, verse, chorus, break, breakdown, intro, etc.
Breakdown when used as a classification of a tune like: ballad, jig, reel, breakdown, hornpipe; has a different meaning.
A 'break' isn't the same type of musical division as a chorus/verse/bridge. You can have a lead break during a chorus, or during a verse, or during a bridge. They're different concepts.
A breakdown is a breakdown, different than a break contextually, but nonetheless it's still different flavors of the same thing. A standalone "breakdown" tune in bluegrass is simply a tune made exclusively of lead breaks played at high speed. A cursory review of popular bluegrass 'breakdowns' will confirm this.
This is really a question of etymology, not music. A reel is a dance, and we also use the term 'reel' to describe the tunes played for that dance. The term "reel" has a long history going back to Scotland, and has a relatively 'firm' definition that's by-and-large not up for debate. A breakdown is not a dance at all, and is more of a modern colloquial term to describe a style of instrumental song performed during a stage show to showcase musical skill for an audience. It's not really comparing apples to apples.
Reel, Jig, Ballad, Hornpipe, Schottische... these are very old terms for types of dances, with relatively established definitions. Breakdown is not in the same category at all.
That's right. A reel is a dance. A breakdown is something too fast to dance to, an exhibition piece.
I associate reel with Scottish music, and a reel could be both a dance and the music to accompany the dance. Breakdown is in my ears more an American concept. So a reel is a breakdown from Scotland, and a breakdown is a reel from US.
Originally both terms were important to DANCERS.
A reel was as has been described above already. Often used to close out a 3 song set of fiddle tuners (or bagpipers) for dancers or exhibition. Militarily, it gives the feel of the disciplined troops speeding up from the march to running toward the enemy. But a reel as a piece of music is very disciplined.
"Breakdown" was a term applying to the last dance of the event (or night). All the rules and niceties of Scottish or Anglo country dancing were thrown out the window (of course influenced by alcohol consumption) and the dancers just went wild with overly-expressive acting out on the dance floor -- often concluding in a fight! "Breakdown" meant a break down of order in the big public dance. The music played for a breakdown was often a reel, it being the fastest piece in the repertoire.
Years ago I saw an old British black and white movie starring Alec Guinness as the Colonel of a regiment of Scottish soldiers with nothing to do in their stone castle/fort in their home country. The movie was about Guinness' fierce discipline when there was really nothing at all for the soldiers to do. Out of ever-lasting boredom the soldiers got their piper to play for an all-male dance while they drank heavily. At the end somebody hollered "breakdown!" and the soldiers went nuts and ended up fighting and wrestling and busting up furniture like in an old West barroom scene. Guinness had been listening approvingly outside to the music and he finally decided to go join the fun just as the breakdown broke out. One second after entering the room he was in full fury at the complete loss of deportment. The end of the film was about the soldiers being even more demoralized than before as the Colonel exacted punishment for all (including the piper I think).
It would be interesting to find the first recorded "breakdown" in hillbilly music. All I know from my fiddle record library is, it wasn't Eck Robertson.
I've asked this reel/breakdown question for decades and never got an authoritative answer.
here is the educated explanation
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Reels:
Time Signature: Primarily 2/4 or 4/4 time.
Tempo: Fast tempo, often with a strong emphasis on the first beat of each measure.
Origin: European folk traditions, particularly in the British Isles.
Dancing: Traditionally used for a "longways" dance, where couples face each other in lines, but also used for other group dances.
Rhythm: Often has an insistent 16th-note motion, creating a lively and driving feel.
Structure: Often in binary form (AABB or ABAB), meaning they have two main sections, which may or may not be repeated.
Breakdowns:
Time Signature: 2/4 or 4/4 time.
Tempo: Fast tempo, similar to reels.
Origin: Developed in the American South, particularly in Old Time and Bluegrass music.
Dancing: While often used for square dances or other group dances, breakdowns can also be used for solo fancy dancing and are not limited to the specific form of a reel dance.
Rhythm: Can vary, but generally features a lively and upbeat feel.
Structure: More flexible and less standardized in terms of form than reels.
Other Uses: In some rock and metal music, the term "breakdown" refers to a section of a song where the music becomes heavier and more intense.
Tongue-in-cheek Terry .... that's ^^ good to know.
When I try to play, the rhythm can vary and the structure might be flexible and non-standard ... apparently I'm playing breakdowns without even knowing it?!?!?
