Has anyone tried making a BB pot with modern parts? Of course one can obtain balls, washers, springs etc.
Could it be fitted with a modern mylar hear instead of a vellum?
Edited by - banjonz on 02/17/2025 11:52:34
I can't answer the first part of your question but, I did use a Remo head on my 1925 TB3 conversion. It had a wonderful tone but it lacked projection. In a jam session it sounded great, on a microphone it died.
Of course you can play a ball bearing with a mylar head!
Why build a ball bearing pot, when most who’ve played them awhile want to switch them over to flatheads? My 26 was lacking something and after I dropped in a Steve Ryan conversiOn ring, it turned on.
I would like to have my old Ball Bearing model back and use it as an around the house banjo. I loved the tone, it just didn't hold up in a band. Since I hardly ever play in public anymore that wouldn't be an issue now.
Does anyone know what the OD / ID & height dimensions of the original BB springs, and the diameter of the ball bearings were ?
Anyone know what the compression force of the springs was / is ?
I've got a '25 BB Style 3, but I'm not going to tear it down to measure the components.
Shouldn't be to difficult to source appropriate die springs. Ball bearings and washers would be easy to source.
You'd still have to fabricate, or have fabricated the actual tone ring, and the skirt.
I much prefer the BB sound to flatheads. There are members here who have emailed me specs on diameter, spring sizes etc. Im sure they will chime in. I started with an incomplete set but had the tone rings. I was able to complete the entire shabang with original parts after 2 years of emails and phone calls but bought a Bb TB 3 before I finished and it sounded so good I decided the Tone ring, BBs, springs and washers would go into my collectible room.
One day I may buy a converted TB3 and conver it back.
Those answers have been posted here in the past, if I recall correctly. The springs seem to be the hard part to reproduce. And yes, someone built a ball bearing rim before. It seems like it was Dick Guggenheim, but not certain.
Yes Bobby, I do know that Dick Guggenheim and Kurt Kemp collaborated on a BB rim a few years back.
I don't recall the whole story, but I believe they used original, springs, BB's, etc.....on a rim that Dick built.
I've had my 1925 TB3 conversion apart a few times, when I changed the head. I use a typical Remo frosted head. I highly recommend you DO NOT use a Fiberskyn. Mine sounds great and holds up in any jam I've been in. My tone ring is currently flipped upside down to give a larger surface closer to a flathead.
Each of my springs has 2 washers at the bottom and 1 on top. I do not believe that is typical. I think the balls are 3/8". The springs are exceedingly firm. I do not remember being able to compress them by hand. By memory I am guessing they are about 5/16" diameter. The closest springs I have seen were clutch springs from an older British motorcycle, possibly a BSA C15.
I tried to roll some brass tubing once into a tone ring, it collapsed and split. Copper could be formed easily but I read of someone trying it and it sounded dead. Once you roll a ring, youwould have to drill the 60 holes in it, add the smaller top ring and the scalloped part around it.
It seems to be a big production and might explain why Gibson abandoned them in favour of one piece tone rings.
Good Luck in your endeavours.
Edited by - Fathand on 02/17/2025 17:59:18
Wayne,
I have been making tonerings for my "No Trap Door back" Trap door style banjos for a couple years , but not like the BB with the small inner bead , just rolled 1/2" brass tube with holes drilled, just like the old Gibson Trap Doors but 11" & 12", I will make a tonering next for a cello banjo that's 14", in 1/2" brass tube with holes , we'll see how it sounds.
I roll them on a Harbor Frieght ring roller with rollers I made for 1/2" size . To keep them from collapsing , I fill them with sand bending them slightly each turm, cut them to size, 11" or 12" to fit the head, drill a hole on either side of the weld spot (to let gasses excape from welding) clean up the weld up & drill holes.
I don't plan on making an exact copy of the BB tonering, sounds like lots of trouble with the springs, I have seen pics of a Trap Door with the BB tonering but can't remember when & who had it , probably a late Trap Door /transition model,,,expermental,,, who knows.
Tommy
What was the issue with the BB banjos? I understand that Gibson produced them for a limited time and the thinking behind that was to build a pot that the head tension didn't have to be adjusted anytime the weather changed. I have only seen and played one BB banjo here and it was the sweetest sounding one I have played. It wasn't particularly loud.
What was the negative about the design that stopped production?
banjonz The BB was definitely more labor intensive to manufacture; to assemble; there are more parts; so, the cost is higher. Imagine drilling (24) holes in the top of the rim; place a steel washer/ spring/ washer/ ball bearing in each hole. Time is money in manufacturing, and I can see why Gibson would switch to a cast tone ring. And just as you experienced, there is definitely a sweet tone but there is not a lot of volume in a BB banjo. Just my two cents worth.
I have been told that Lloyd Loar basically developed the ball bearing banjo pot . Also been told that the design of the ball bearing banjo was a tonal invention and had nothing to do with off setting humidity issues by spring loaded bearings keeping head tension more stable . I dont know for sure if this is true but for years i believed it was a "keep the head tight invention" too ...curious if anybody has heard otherwise .
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