Hi all, came into this gretsch tenor banjo, as received it was barely playable. I was going to replace the head and bridge and see if I could tweak it into serviceability.
In the process of taking the resonator off and disassembly, I discovered that the rim is quite warped.
Is it possible to get this back into some kind of serviceable shape, or is this a hopeless case? See attached pics.
Thanks!!
NOTE: 2 pictures on his home page.
One picture brung here by an Old Man trying to be helpful.
Looks like cast metal.
Might be aluminum, might be some other alloy.
If it can't be fixed, MAYBE it can't be played.
How about a couple of pictures, showing a yardstick laid across, each way, so we can see how out of round it is?
A pre-mounted MYLAR head likes a round body, but a natural SKIN head will dry and shrink to fit whatever it's stretched on, including SQUARE.
And if you ruin the body by trying to restore it to round, you can always replace the body, although it is SAD to see an old banjo NOT get restored to playable condition.
Best wishes for a successful outcome.
gdgross
I recommend you post the pictures directly to this forum. Though they are on your media page, making them easily accessible on this page will get you more replies.
When you (and only you) view this page, you can scroll down to an attachments box that has your media photos. click on each one and they will appear in "your attachments" box. Then click post reply.
Very simple and much more convenient for us that have sucky internet connections.
Bob Smakula
Hi all, thanks for the replies - I didn't even realize I was only uploading photos to my profile and not this post. TO complicate the matter, I couldn't seem to upload pics to this post for some reason, so I here are the pics, with one additional that has a straightedge across the bottom of the rim showing how out of true it is.
Eyeballing it, it looks like there's maybe half an inch between the lowest point in the rim and the straightedge I laid across it. (One of the pics shows this, but it's hard to see the scale.)
Thanks!
edit, figured out the attachment to post thing, thanks Bob
Edited by - gdgross on 02/13/2025 07:16:05
It appears to be cast metal...therefore nearly impossible to get it back round and flat without cracking it.
As Mike said, a calfskin head will conform to just about any shape. If it was playable before you took it apart, you can probably make it playable again (still warped).
I'd give it a good cleaning and put it back together. Keep the old head on it.
Edited by - trapdoor2 on 02/13/2025 07:19:56
Ok, thanks Marc - I'll see if I can set it up as best I can with the rim as-is. As received, the action was very high, and it seemed like the angle of the neck was wrong too.
One small question, the lugs are a smaller diameter than the standard drum lug size; is there an older standard? (and could I get a wrench for it somewhere?)
That's a known problem with the cast Grestch rims. Do a search here and you will find past posts about it. It could crack and/or crumble during setup. Best of luck and let us know how you make out!
Aaah, yes, the Gretsch metal pots!
This has brought back a memory of a friend who gave me one, some sort of pot metal, with a cast pot metal tone ring, which had, indeed, crumbled.
As mentioned those are pot metal castings and can implode or sheer chunks off if looked at the wrong way. If you cannot get it adjusted to accommodate playable action, which is very likely, you can build a cool clock out of ratty unplayable tenors.
A mentor had one on his wall that he built and it was really neat.
Thanks for the advice all.
I've got it mostly back together, sans resonator, and I see a few problems in getting this banjo playable. the action is pretty high, and the break angle across the bridge is very shallow. The easiest way I see to remedy both would be to have a tailpiece that holds the strings closer to the head. That would allow me to sand the bridge down a bit and maybe get some lower action.
I don't see a way to adjust the neck angle or anything on this banjo, but maybe I don't know enough about banjos to know how to do this. (I assume most banjos don't have truss rods like guitars to adjust, neither this nor my deering goodtime 5 string do.)
The tailpiece has a screw going through to the bottom of the rim, but it doesn't seem to have an adjustable height or anything.
If I physically pull the neck back a bit, I can see that the angle over the bridge will be better, and the action could get into a workable place. Is there a way to adjust the neck angle? Do I need to take it off and sand the bottom part of the heel or something?
Thanks!
Geoff
I have used thin wedges between the pot and the neck as a way to tip the neck back, without having to re-cut the heel.
Thanks, I could do some shims too, good idea!
Suppose I could also add some material in between the tailpiece and the strings to increase the break angle over the bridge too...
I may just get this thing in playable shape!
Edited by - gdgross on 02/22/2025 15:34:40
Hi again!
So I disassembled the whole thing. The neck has this extension piece that goes down to the bottom of the pot, and there's a screw holding it in place from the outside of the pot. I was able to plug the old hole in the end of the neck extension piece and dill a new one. This, along with a bit of sanding on the heel, set the neck at a much better angle.
Now the only issue is that the break angle of the bridge is very shallow, possibly because this pot has warped in the last 100 years of its life.
I tried sticking a shim below the tailpice to push the strings closer to the head, but it seems that the tailpiece was pushed away from the head rather than the strings closer to the head. Any ideas? Maybe a replacement tailpiece that doesn't easily bend?
Currenlty, it's playable, but I think I could improve it! ANy thoughts?
Edited by - gdgross on 03/01/2025 09:00:38
I'm no expert, but if the tailpiece actually bends as you're adjusting it, or soon thereafter, methinks it's not long for this world.
Edit: Re. the possibility of straightening the [pot metal] rim. Others have mentioned the likelihood of it breaking, but .... just thinking out loud here ... would it be possible to straighten it over a period of several weeks (?) by sandwiching it between two flat surfaces and then progressively, and slowly, increasing the weight on the top. Eg. 20 lb. every few days. And if it did work, would it be only "temporary"?
Edited by - Owen on 03/01/2025 09:33:11
This tailpiece sits on the tension hoop pretty much the same way as current-day clamshell and Waverly tailpieces. These are perfectly suitable to this banjo, but aren't as cheap as they used to be. Still not expensive on eBay or Amazon. More to the point: they have angle adjustment screws on the back side.
Waverly:
Clamshell:
You can also use a Kershner style tailpiece, which "floats" (in that it doesn't have a bracket or foot that puts it on the top edge of the tension hoop but does have fully adjustable angle adjustment.
These have great mass and stability that I think contribute to good sound. They also have left-right adjustment that can correct for a skewed neck or an out-of-round pot that puts the centerline of the neck off-axis. And they have nothing to rattle, like the cover on the clamshell.
Additional note:
Most banjos do have a truss rod in the neck. Goodtimes notoriously don't. Truss rod is not for action adjustment. You've already been advised about shimming and have done that. I would add that since the pot is all metal, you could use either wood or metal for a shim. Brass shim stock from hobby shops is good for that. So is almuminum flashing or cut up beer can.
>I'm no expert, but if the tailpiece actually bends as you're adjusting it, or soon thereafter, methinks it's not long for this world.<
That appears to be one of many old Waverly tailpieces that used a slide-on cover to reinforce the 90° angle. It can also be an old, worn out Grover. Without that cover, it's not if it will fail due to metal fatigue but when.
If the 'piece is not yet cracking at the bend, a fix can be attempted by anyone who does jewelry repair. Bend it back to 90° and lay in a thick bead of silver solder inside the bend. Downside is that the torch will often discolor what's left of the nickel plate.
Any Saga dealer can get any of the tailpieces that Ken shows, myself included (I try to keep all in stock). Support your local music store but if you don't have one feel free to PM me. I also have some old "age appropriate to the banjo" 4 and 5 stringed adjustable tailpieces.
Shiny new nickel plated tailpieces are easy to age with a little white vinegar, a mason jar and a block to elevate the 'piece above the vinegar. Seal the top, put in a warm location for 20 minutes or so and rinse with water when done but do not wipe down. This will give it a nice patina.
Edited by - mikehalloran on 03/01/2025 14:29:07
Thanks guys! just grabbed a waverly tailpiece on ebay, seems like it will do the trick!
Appreciate the advice. As far as slowly straightening out the pot, that makes me nervous lol. I also need to use this banjo in a show in a couple of weeks, so I think even if I did, I'll wait a while.
