I've been playing for about a year and a half and regularly attend local jams and camps. I have a LONG way to go in my banjo journey, but I am starting to feel more comfortable with my contributions in beginner / early intermediate jams. I am generally able to lead songs at a moderate pace and can usually improvise a simple break if the key and chord progressions are not too complex.
One issue that is still perplexing to me is how to best kick off a song that I am leading. On a lot of recorded bluegrass music, the banjo kicks off the tune by playing through the melody of the first verse (e.g., Earl's kickoff to Blue Ridge Cabin Home on the Foggy Mountain Jamboree album). That is usually the way I kick off that tune.
This seems to work fine for a song (like Blue Ridge) that everybody knows and I do try to stick with the classics when calling tunes. But if I am playing with a rhythm section that is not terribly familiar with the bluegrass canon (which I sometimes find in beginner jams with less experienced players like myself), this can pose a problem. That is, I run the risk of playing a full verse kickoff by myself, while others are trying to figure out what the melody/chord changes are. Once I get to the vocal part (which is where I usually stop rolling and start vamping), the chord changes become more obvious as the left hand position changes are more dramatic. This is usually when folks catch up.
What should I do in this situation? I suppose I could just get more comfortable with my kickoffs being primarily solo endeavors at these types of jams; although that seems to go against the spirit of the jam as a communal activity. Or I could play much shorter kickoffs (say, a simple lick that "walks up" to the G chord and only lasts for a measure or two, before I start vamping/singing), but that seems less "bluegrassy" to me.
Any advice?
Edited by - pinkerton99 on 02/12/2025 10:59:36
If your approach to kicking off a song is typically to play the song's melody, you are doing it right.
If nobody else knows what to do, that is the issue. You need to either keep discussing song options until there is some sort of quorum of people who know the changes (and can therefore help the others along), or have a quick "teaching session" before playing the song to get everyone on the same page. Typical bluegrass songs don't tend to need more than a minute or so of singing through the melody for everyone to get at least oriented enough to get into it a bit.
Your other idea of just doing a quick I-V-I kickoff is also a valid option, but that just kicks the can down the road when the band doesn't know the changes as someone starts singing.
quote:
Originally posted by Keith BillikYour other idea of just doing a quick I-V-I kickoff is also a valid option, but that just kicks the can down the road when the band doesn't know the changes as someone starts singing.
Thanks, Keith. You're right, that is not really much of a solution and I would certainly prefer to kickoff with a full play through of the verse.
It is interesting because I attended a Wernick camp a year ago, and my sense (which could be incorrect) was that Pete recommends not talking through the specific Nashville-notation chord changes of a song prior to playing, as this can overwhelm beginners. But, as you suggest, quickly strumming and singing through the melody to teach the group might be a better option for getting everyone on the same page.
It does sound like this problem perhaps goes away, though, as one becomes a more experienced player.
Edited by - pinkerton99 on 02/12/2025 12:13:15
Pete Wernick has a good point. Talking through the chord progression brings the whole jam energy down and few will remember it anyway.
If I’m leading a tune that few know, I sometimes play it through and sing it with the ”lyrics” equal to the chord names. This presents the melody and the chords while keeping up the jam energy. This method has served me very well.
quote:
Originally posted by Peter CIf I’m leading a tune that few know, I sometimes play it through and sing it with the ”lyrics” equal to the chord names.
This is a really good idea, Peter, and I think may be what I need to be doing going forward. Thank you!
I see the issue a lot with the beginner jams I've been to. Trying to get people to play and not read from their books is a challenge. I really like what Tyler Grant does in his live Youtube jams (youtube.com/channel/UCqQS5aupf...I5_OvGH5w). He leads a song by singing the chords (like Peter described I think). This shows the chords and timing related to the melody. Then he will do a lead kickoff and then starts singing.
quote:
Originally posted by pinkerton99I've been playing for about a year and a half and regularly attend local jams and camps. I have a LONG way to go in my banjo journey, but I am starting to feel more comfortable with my contributions in beginner / early intermediate jams. I am generally able to lead songs at a moderate pace and can usually improvise a simple break if the key and chord progressions are not too complex.
One issue that is still perplexing to me is how to best kick off a song that I am leading. On a lot of recorded bluegrass music, the banjo kicks off the tune by playing through the melody of the first verse (e.g., Earl's kickoff to Blue Ridge Cabin Home on the Foggy Mountain Jamboree album). That is usually the way I kick off that tune.
This seems to work fine for a song (like Blue Ridge) that everybody knows and I do try to stick with the classics when calling tunes. But if I am playing with a rhythm section that is not terribly familiar with the bluegrass canon (which I sometimes find in beginner jams with less experienced players like myself), this can pose a problem. That is, I run the risk of playing a full verse kickoff by myself, while others are trying to figure out what the melody/chord changes are. Once I get to the vocal part (which is where I usually stop rolling and start vamping), the chord changes become more obvious as the left hand position changes are more dramatic. This is usually when folks catch up.
What should I do in this situation? I suppose I could just get more comfortable with my kickoffs being primarily solo endeavors at these types of jams; although that seems to go against the spirit of the jam as a communal activity. Or I could play much shorter kickoffs (say, a simple lick that "walks up" to the G chord and only lasts for a measure or two, before I start vamping/singing), but that seems less "bluegrassy" to me.
Any advice?
Hi pinkerton99
Sean Ray has a great TAB book on this topic. https://seanray.com/2014/the-kickoff-book-101-bluegrass-banjo-intros/
Also check out this guy. He should be able to keep you busy for a while
Edited by - FenderFred on 02/12/2025 13:25:20
I usually ask if someone on guitar knows it, so everyone else can follow him/her. Or I sing through it using chord names for words, as mentioned already. Or i sing a verse first with vamping , then play the break. Banjo solos can throw newbies to a song off cuz the high drone can make some chords sound ambiguous.
A few folks at my local jam will print out chord/lyric sheets when they plan on introducing a new tune that most are not familiar with. I always thought that was a pretty considerate way to go about things.
With regard to kicking something off: I like when a person establishes the tempo in a steady manner before starting into the melody. Fiddle players do this when they play "taters." On the banjo I like to do that by either walking up on the fourth string, or by emulating the "taters" that the fiddle would play.
FenderFred posted that potatoes video by banjo Ben. That's pretty much the ticket right there.
I usually start off with either the entire first verse or maybe the last 8 bars of the melody, sometimes the first 4 bars, according to the song itself. Then I usually sing the first verse and chorus and give the nod to the next person in the jam.
So, it's really a personal thing how you start off a song. Most of my songs nowadays are vocals, so it's easy to start off with the melody or part of it.
Thanks, everybody. There is a lot of great advice in this thread that I can take with me to my next jam.
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