Brenden,

My husband and I lived in fairly remote Alaska for 20 years. It was impossible to find folks to play music. So I found songs or tunes I truly loved and played along with recordings,

Many years later (after not playing for 20+ years and leaving Alaska) we play with friends perhaps 4 or 5 times a week and I have found improvement that I could never achieve playing alone. Really solicit anyone (perhaps offer your home) regardless of instrument they play to join you. We play with guitars, ukes, fiddles, mandolins, drums, occasional flute and it does not matter what ttype music. It gets your brain active and even if you dont play an occasional song but perhaps sing, you will improve, don’t fall into the trap that you are not good enough to play with others - we sought out and found folks that dont give a fig about your playing ability. The experts take the lead and we can just play quietly or not at all. We are still learning and appreciating music.

Thanks Joan,

I'd agree with you there, private lessons are definitely something I want to do sometime soon. Can't seem to find anyone anywhere close to me though. Might start looking into some online options

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Originally posted by joanofthejungle

I think there is no substitute for private lessons from a good banjo teacher. Tell them what your goals are, and they should be able to help you reach them. My banjo teacher is constantly assessing and redirecting me, while keeping me from going down rabbit holes that hinder my progress. If you're concerned about using your practice time efficiently, I think a good private teacher is the way to go. Also, in person beats online.

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Thanks Deb,

Yeah I've been considering looking harder for jams but don't really know where to look. I remember there was one at the firehall in a town i lived a few years back, wasn't a regular thing though. I lived beside the station and was an active volunteer firefighter so i would have known.

I've been playing along with the fiddle recordings lately and am getting a taste for it. I know of some people that are into music in a town about an hour away from me. Might try getting touch soon, been thinking about it for a while but have been waiting to run into someone I know who knows them as I don't have any phone numbers. My neighbor recently mentioned he had tried playing guitar for a time, I think my best bet is to try and convince him to pick it up again!

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Originally posted by Banjoezzie

Brenden,

My husband and I lived in fairly remote Alaska for 20 years. It was impossible to find folks to play music. So I found songs or tunes I truly loved and played along with recordings,

Many years later (after not playing for 20+ years and leaving Alaska) we play with friends perhaps 4 or 5 times a week and I have found improvement that I could never achieve playing alone. Really solicit anyone (perhaps offer your home) regardless of instrument they play to join you. We play with guitars, ukes, fiddles, mandolins, drums, occasional flute and it does not matter what ttype music. It gets your brain active and even if you dont play an occasional song but perhaps sing, you will improve, don’t fall into the trap that you are not good enough to play with others - we sought out and found folks that dont give a fig about your playing ability. The experts take the lead and we can just play quietly or not at all. We are still learning and appreciating music.

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Thanks Paul, looking at his page now, seems like a cool guy. I might get in touch with him when I get back from visiting family 

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Originally posted by H Kimball

No substitute for one-on-one lessons! Fortunately you can now do this online. Immediate feedback worth the investment you make in Private lessons. Check out your fellow Canadian, Chris Coole's website- chriscoole.com/home
One of his online workshops "Practice to Improve" I highly recommend

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I've been doing just that lately and it's paying off well. I've forgotten how to play a half dozen songs but the few that I have been working on, one at a time, for a day or three in a row. I've really noticed the difference in how they sound, having fun with variations more as well

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Originally posted by Tunngavik

quote: Ditto. Agree completely. Ten years of practise and my most important take away is quality not quantity. An analogy would be They say you only have time and energy as you get older to cultivate perhaps three or four close friends. Same with tunes. Forget that "OK now on to the next tune" urge. Make close, intimate friends with a few favourite tunes and learn them to perfection - your ear will tell you when you've reached that point. It will be sweet music to your ears.

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Originally posted by Eulalie

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Originally posted by Brendanervin
 

Frustration only comes when I'm trying to work on and improve what I've already memorized, when I feel that despite my best efforts, they still sound crap. So I mostly just learn new stuff to keep my confidence up. I still work on nearly every song I've learned everyday, I just don't 'try' and make them better, just play it once or twice and maybe go over some choppy measures for a while until they iron out a bit, then on to the next tune. Is this bad practice?
 

Yes, that was a lengthy rant.  You expressed frustration over what we all probably have to go through in order to gain some proficiency on your instrument.  I clipped a quote from your dissertation that may represent one of the major hurdles to improving.

For many players, the primary impediment to improvement is flitting from one tune to another instead of investing in mastering one or two pieces.  This is a difficult thing for everyone because we naturally crave variety.  But it's worse than ever in our current age where attention spans have been eroded by design.  Nearly all that stuff you scroll through on your phone has been crafted by marketing psychologists who know what to do to keep you scrolling and clicking.

The best thing you can do is commit to working on a single piece for a single day.  Play only that piece—using a metronome—until you can play it perfectly from memory.  Then start working on variations, beginning with simple ornaments like hammers or pull-offs.  If you succeed, commit to working on a different tune the same way for your next practice session.

By the way, you mention that you have no interest in playing with others.  This is a mistake in my opinion because playing with others is the best way to get feedback, and the best route to improvement. 

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Originally posted by Brendanervin

Thanks Joan,

I'd agree with you there, private lessons are definitely something I want to do sometime soon. Can't seem to find anyone anywhere close to me though. Might start looking into some online options

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Originally posted by joanofthejungle

I think there is no substitute for private lessons from a good banjo teacher. Tell them what your goals are, and they should be able to help you reach them. My banjo teacher is constantly assessing and redirecting me, while keeping me from going down rabbit holes that hinder my progress. If you're concerned about using your practice time efficiently, I think a good private teacher is the way to go. Also, in person beats online.

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If you end up going for online lessons, I think my current banjo teacher, Cameron Dewhitt (they, them), is terrific!  They  really have a knack for explaining things, and guiding me in the direction I want to go.  Check them out at pitchforkbanjo.com.  I'm fortunate enough to live nearby so I can take lessons in person but I know they also offer lessons online. I've had three clawhammer banjo teachers so far, and Cameron is head and shoulders the best!

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Thanks Kirby, 

Yeah it feels like I've sacrificed my 'playing just for fun' in favor of working hard on certain rough sounding measures usually with slides or drop thumbs that sound like they aren't timed quite right yet. I like the idea of separate types of practice, I do take breaks from working on ironing out a tune to have fun playing with the different variations that i can come up with, sounds likd I'd benefit from separating these into different practice sessions rather that just going back and forth willy-nilly. Definitely all over the place all at once and enjoying the ride all the same!

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Originally posted by burnttoastbanjo

Well you’ve brought up notions in your post and as many have sort of said, there is no one true WAY. For a Zen type response I’d say my way probably isn’t your way as we are all so very different. I’m self taught mostly but there have been many book purchases (most have a lot of tabs) I’ve had good and bad luck with tabs and over time I think I’ve figured out why. I’m 71and been picking for 51 yrs. Now when I practice I do one or the other, that is play tunes for the fun of playing along and the enjoyment of just playing. This of course also involves obviously, but maybe not consciously stewing about it, things like timing and your picking accuracy, anticipating chord changes and being conscious of your tone and volume being consistently consistent. The other type of practice is well, actual technical practice.

When I first started learning all I did was practice rolls over and over and over alternating between forward and backward and alternating thumb while changing patterns trying to be smooth and concise in the process. After a while to break up the monotony I started doing chord changes with the rolls. Yes sometimes incredibly boring and then at some point you realize that the rolls and chord changes are fitting and sounding somewhat song like. At this point you are on your way to doing/playing anything you want as in making your own sounds/songs. Just to double back here I keep these practice goals separate even though musically they are very much connected.

So anyway that’s my advice. For better technique and fingering decisions have a practice time that’s maybe more like doing homework than banjo playing and work on those types of issues you’re having and feel you need to address. For ear training and the playing part of being a player I like to pick along with tunes that I like to play with and believe me that’s wide open. I don’t put any limits on what genre I might want to dilly dally in but that’s my thing. But that’s a different time of day and I’m in a different mood and maybe a beer or two. As I read your post it seemed like you were all over the place all at once. That’s my take, you seem to have the desire so ride that train and enjoy the journey.

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Oh no, I've got a terrible singing voice haha. I seem to be missing a big chunk of vocal range, it goes from low to highish with nothing in between. I don't even like hearing it myself so I keep it real quiet like under the banjo so the dog doesn't judge me unfairly. Been trying to listen to more music while I'm out working the woods and singing along but it probably doesn't help that I can't hear myself. Hopefully it's just a case of time and practice and my voice might sound better and actually be able to sing notes. I tried an app for voice training but I was so far off the mark with every single note, with no improvement over time, I figured I'd give the singing a rest for a while until my playing is good enough to make up for / mask it 

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Originally posted by bosborne

 

When you sing and play people are paying attention to your voice first, your playing just needs to sound solid and steady underneath your singing.

 

 

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Originally posted by Brendanervin

Been trying to listen to more music while I'm out working the woods and singing along but it probably doesn't help that I can't hear myself.

 

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Have you tried singing in the car?  Great place to hear yourself and not be judged.  Especially if you have a long commute or something.

I don't think I have actually, the stereo in the truck doesn't work.  I'm not worried about being judged actually, my nearest neighbor is miles away. It's more that I don't like hearing my singing because it sounds terrible and I can't hit the notes. I'll keep at it though, while I'm wearing my saw hat at least.

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Originally posted by A Drum On A Stick

quote:Have you tried singing in the car?  Great place to hear yourself and not be judged.  Especially if you have a long commute or something.

 

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Wow. I have been playing for just over 6 months. It seems like you have too many irons in the fire. Here is my 2¢ :

Use Josh Turknett's new book, "Anyone Can Play Music" as the primary instruction to learn & practice most effectively. You can pick it up online for about $16USD. Read it through once, then go back to individual chapters.

Focus on accuracy, clean playing, and one teacher's style. I chose my instructor based on how he presented the information. I use Lukas Pool and play clawhammer. I'm not saying you should change styles, but you might want to check out his free basic banjo course. I feel that his methodical, easy to understand instruction gave me an awesome launch. It may benefit you. (ozarkbanjo.com/free-beginner-c...o-lessons)

You're going to have to learn chords to play smoothly. Knowing them cuts down processing time.

Remember, it is the quality of the playing that brings joy to those who listen.

I wish you the best of luck.

Thanks for the message Spud,

Yes, i definitely was trying too much at once. Now I'm just playing the songs I've learnt already, sticking to one or two at a time, my playing seems to be improving because of it.

While i like Josh's teaching style I'm not really looking to be reading books or watching videos anymore, just playing over songs repeatedly seems to be what's working for me at the moment. Maybe next winter when I'm stuck indoors again. 

I don't really do chords either haha, aside from the few that are in the tunes i play. The dog is the only one who ever hears me play and he doesn't seem to mind so much.  I'm not a very social person, my reason for playing the banjo is really just to give me something to do out here in the woods when I'm too tired to run the saw. 

Appreciate the advice though, I'll likely be looking to improve my playing over the next winter but for now I'll just be pickin at it whenever i can, playing what sounds good to me at the time. 

Also, having to learn to play clawhammer with my fingertip, turns out i can't keep a nail while I'm working. Accuracy has taken a dive but I'm getting used to it, doing more 2 finger as well, might lean into that more but i do like clawhammer and don't mind missing notes so much if i keep the timing going good.

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Originally posted by Spudwheat

Wow. I have been playing for just over 6 months. It seems like you have too many irons in the fire. Here is my 2¢ :

Use Josh Turknett's new book, "Anyone Can Play Music" as the primary instruction to learn & practice most effectively. You can pick it up online for about $16USD. Read it through once, then go back to individual chapters.

Focus on accuracy, clean playing, and one teacher's style. I chose my instructor based on how he presented the information. I use Lukas Pool and play clawhammer. I'm not saying you should change styles, but you might want to check out his free basic banjo course. I feel that his methodical, easy to understand instruction gave me an awesome launch. It may benefit you. (ozarkbanjo.com/free-beginner-c...o-lessons)

You're going to have to learn chords to play smoothly. Knowing them cuts down processing time.

Remember, it is the quality of the playing that brings joy to those who listen.

I wish you the best of luck.

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Hi Brendan...yeah, a long rant...what stands out for me is that your timing is off...ya gotta fix that...bad timing ruins everything...slow down...simplify...consider using a metronome...but get your timing right...excuse the pun, but you are wasting your time if your time if off

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Originally posted by Brendanervin

My accuracy is still poor, timing as well. My reasoning is that at this point, it doesn't really matter what I'm doing so long as it's with a banjo in my hand, I will be improving as a player.

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I couldn't disagree more.

Doing something with the banjo might be better for your playing than doing nothing with the banjo. But it also presents the risk of doing the same wrong things the wrong way, which might only make you better at being a bad player.

Only intentional practice and repetition focused on correcting the things you're not doing well will help you improve.

I see from a late March post that you've in fact narrowed your practice to only a couple of songs at a time, and you believe you're seeing improvement. That's the way to do it. A repertoire of 20 songs you can't play up to speed, in time, with any accuracy is not really "knowing" 20 songs. You're acquainted with them. Just as with people, it will take time to really get to know them.

If your songs are coming from lessons -- such as from Hilary Hawke or Alison de Groot -- then it's possible they arranged the songs to introduce and practice specific techniques in a planned, developmental, order. Learning technique in the context of songs is always more fun than learning it as exercises. But both ways are valuable.

So practice whatever Hilary and Alison are suggesting.

Theory is good to know. But it's not necessary to know before we play. I think of it like grammar. We learn to speak by ear and imitation and become fluent speakers of our native languages long before we are instructed in their actual rules of grammar or usage.

Music theory is an explanation of what's happening in a piece of music. It's not a recipe or instructions for creating a piece of music. And while theory can explain why something sounds good, sometimes theory would suggest otherwise. Fortunately, there's one rule of theory that trumps all others: If it sounds good, it is good.

I think you need to focus on improving the things in your playing that need improving. Then you'll improve as a player.

I say that as someone whose own practice is often unfocused and scattershot.

One of the biggest things that some beginners miss is also spending time actually listening to the tunes that they are learning until they are engraved into your brain. I keep a healthy collection of tunes on my phone, and play them in the car, in my shop, and just about anywhere I go. After a while you won’t have to remember how the tune goes anymore. Then you can focus on the more subtle details. There are a lot of details. You will eventually learn to relax and play it your own way.