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A bandmate has a student who has one of these carbon fiber guitars. I got to check it out and play it. I was quite amazed. Played smooth, sounded WAY better than it ever had a right to, and for less than $200, blows any student guitar at the price, that I've ever seen. So I watched some YouTube review, and I'm definitely not alone in my opinion.
But aside from the really good sound and playability, is the construction. The whole freaking guitar is ONE PIECE!!! The body, saddle, neck, nut, etc are all one piece of molded carbon fiber. After it pops out of however it's molded... just add saddle, endpins, frets, tuners, strings, and yes, even a truss rod, and it's done.
So of course, my mind immediately thought of how simple the technology could create the ultimate simple low cost banjo. Pop it out of the mold, throw on a head, frets, tuners, hardware and walla. For under $200, I'd buy one.
quote:
Originally posted by Dean TSo of course, my mind immediately thought of how simple the technology could create the ultimate simple low cost banjo. Pop it out of the mold, throw on a head, frets, tuners, hardware and walla. For under $200, I'd buy one.
Earlier in this century, someone (in Australia, I think) briefly offered a carbon fiber tone ring. I think it cost $600.
Check out the outdoor ukulele company. They are getting there with a banjo uke with an 11 inch head. They use carbon reinforced plastic. No problems with temperature or moisture.
I agree that a full size banjo in composite material could be good and cheap
quote:
Originally posted by Dean TA bandmate has a student who has one of these carbon fiber guitars. I got to check it out and play it. I was quite amazed. Played smooth, sounded WAY better than it ever had a right to, and for less than $200, blows any student guitar at the price, that I've ever seen. So I watched some YouTube review, and I'm definitely not alone in my opinion.
But aside from the really good sound and playability, is the construction. The whole freaking guitar is ONE PIECE!!! The body, saddle, neck, nut, etc are all one piece of molded carbon fiber. After it pops out of however it's molded... just add saddle, endpins, frets, tuners, strings, and yes, even a truss rod, and it's done.
So of course, my mind immediately thought of how simple the technology could create the ultimate simple low cost banjo. Pop it out of the mold, throw on a head, frets, tuners, hardware and walla. For under $200, I'd buy one.
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by Dean TSo of course, my mind immediately thought of how simple the technology could create the ultimate simple low cost banjo. Pop it out of the mold, throw on a head, frets, tuners, hardware and walla. For under $200, I'd buy one.
Earlier in this century, someone (in Australia, I think) briefly offered a carbon fiber tone ring. I think it cost $600.
Having experience the advent of carbon fiber bikes, the costs of carbon fiber frames and components have come way down, as the technology progresses. I would imagine most of the cost comes with tooling up, so making say 100 tone rings and hoping they sell, might be quite expensive. But producing thousands of good selling items like bikes or instruments brings the price way down.
Having now seen and marveled at the technology of that guitar, I couldn't help but ponder how ultra simple something like a one piece Goodtime would be. Once fretted, It would take a few minutes to throw the hardware on it, and you would have a banjo ready to play. I'm very surprised someone hasn't done it yet.
quote:
Originally posted by mb4meCheck out the outdoor ukulele company. They are getting there with a banjo uke with an 11 inch head. They use carbon reinforced plastic. No problems with temperature or moisture.
I agree that a full size banjo in composite material could be good and cheap
I checked them out, and they are getting there! And sound really good. Really reinforces the idea that a banjo would work well
I have a banjo with a CF tone ring. It sounds excellent. Someone posted a CF banjo on BHO a few years ago and then never posted anything more. It looked great.
I have a CF form for making tone rings. The ring I got was from a guy in the UK who was in the industry. He sold the one ring he made to me. I then purchased the form from him with dreams of being the CF tone ring person. Still has not happened.
I suspect the time and cost to fabricate CF can be significant. And the market for banjos is nowhere near what it is for guitars.
I took a turn off of CF to working with Corian for tone rings and use the CF as my benchmark instrument to compare everything else I do to it. It has it all.
But we can dream.
Ken Lavan was making carbon tone rings before he passed.
Gold Tone made the Marc Horowitz model banjo that had a Carbon Fiber neck and a block wood rim. It was not a commercial success that I could tell. A customer special ordered one from me, then canceled the order after I received the instrument. It took me more than several years to sell at a deep discount.
Bob Smakula
smakulafrettedinstrumnts.com
The jest of this topic for me, isn’t making traditional banjo parts out of carbon fiber, and then assembling them in a traditional manner. If I’m going to assemble and set up traditional banjo parts into a banjo, I’ll choose traditional wood and proven set up methods any day.
For me, after holding and playing the $189 guitar that was all one piece, the crossover into the banjo world makes sense. If the guitar would have felt and played like a plastic Wal Mart kiddie guitar, I wouldn’t give it a second thought. But it was an exceptional instrument for perfect fit and finish, played as comfortable and smooth as a professional level guitar, and sounded a million times better than the Yamaha student guitars we grew up with.
Picture a Goodtime, only all one piece and made from carbon fiber. The nut is molded into the neck, and the shoes are molded into the rim. Once the frets are installed, it takes someone a few minutes to an install hardware, tension the head, string it up and ship it out. At $200 a pop, you have a beginner banjo that will never develop fret sprout, never warp, never have a loose neck joint, never get whacked out by climate and humidity, and require very minimal and stupid simple set up. If it were anything like the guitars that are starting to show up, it would put Deering out of business, unless of course they would be the ones to do it.
Carbon-fiber is one of the new miracle materials that has some special applications. The bicycle world, for example, was at first ecstatic for such a moldable & lightweight alternative, until it was discovered that it would easily crack in a spill, or tip over.
I wonder how a CF banjo would stand up to a drop, tip over, or bump. ??
quote:
Originally posted by tdennisCarbon-fiber is one of the new miracle materials that has some special applications. The bicycle world, for example, was at first ecstatic for such a moldable & lightweight alternative, until it was discovered that it would easily crack in a spill, or tip over.
I wonder how a CF banjo would stand up to a drop, tip over, or bump. ??
I have a carbon fiber guitar from Emerald Guitars. It is a thing of beauty and l'm sure it's strong! All the carbon makers claim that their guitars are vertually indestructible but mine being so good looking, I'm afraid to scratch it. That’s the thing about carbon fiber, it is way stronger than it needs to be. Right now I'm working on a fiddle that utilizes all the same process as carbon fiber but It will be of hemp fibre instead. Hemp is the strongest natural fiber, it has better acoustic properties than carbon and it is strong enough. That’s what the best musical instruments are. Strong enough! I started using hemp in banjos 2 years ago.
Edited by - martyjoe on 02/01/2025 15:59:08
Not CF, but what was that company who made aluminium banjos? Merlin? Marlin? Something like that. I’ve only ever seen one for sale, and it wasn’t cheap, but it was a lovely looking thing. I suspect it would sound quite metallic though…
Do we know what Gold Tone is using in their "composite" rims for the AC series?
Thank you kindly.
CF is pretty resonant. My understanding is that the GoldTone graphite necks were not very good.
I suspect a one piece banjo could be decent. You might look at Outdoor Banjoleles.
outdoorukulele.com/products/ou...on-nickel
Their instrument is a composite of polycarbonate and CF.
I converted one to a five string with a wood neck. The uke is unique and a great design. Took some tinkering to get the neck mounted. It is strung with nylon strings and is quieter than a bluegrass instrument. Plays good. Not as bright as the instrument with a standard Gibson style CF tone ring.
But it is a very good design and a step in banjo technology.
I purchased a carbon fibre dobro from a man outside of Houston. He has made a small number of them, and they were anything but inexpensive. I wanted it as a travel instrument, so I could leave it in the car and not worry about how hot it would get. What I didn’t expect was how amazingly beautiful the tone turned out to be. I have many high end dobros and this is my go to instrument. It’s not affected by temperature or humidity, and it’s always in perfect tune.
Of course, the unspoken part of a complete CF banjo, is it can do double duty as a canoe paddle.
If someone was interested in searching YouTube, the KLOS carbon guitar company has a video of them paddling a canoe down the river with their guitar, and even driving a golf ball with the guitar.
Edited by - Dean T on 02/02/2025 08:56:22
tim stafford use to play and push the composite acoustics carbon fiber guitar... i played one the a friend had bought,,, it sounded pretty good,, just not the backbone of an 18 or 28
quote:
Originally posted by Dean TIf someone was interested in searching YouTube, the KLOS carbon guitar company has a video of them paddling a canoe down the river with their guitar, and even driving a golf ball with the guitar.
I saw that years ago. Of course, a banjo is better!
quote:
Originally posted by Dean TA bandmate has a student who has one of these carbon fiber guitars. I got to check it out and play it. I was quite amazed. Played smooth, sounded WAY better than it ever had a right to, and for less than $200, blows any student guitar at the price, that I've ever seen. So I watched some YouTube review, and I'm definitely not alone in my opinion.
But aside from the really good sound and playability, is the construction. The whole freaking guitar is ONE PIECE!!! The body, saddle, neck, nut, etc are all one piece of molded carbon fiber. After it pops out of however it's molded... just add saddle, endpins, frets, tuners, strings, and yes, even a truss rod, and it's done.
So of course, my mind immediately thought of how simple the technology could create the ultimate simple low cost banjo. Pop it out of the mold, throw on a head, frets, tuners, hardware and walla. For under $200, I'd buy one.
Here's one........https://www.banjohangout.org/archive/380888
I’m curious as to what kind of banjo could be 3-D printed. What would the tone be? How durable would it be? I don’t know beans about 3-D printing except that it is spreading into various industries.
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Originally posted by BridgebusterI’m curious as to what kind of banjo could be 3-D printed. What would the tone be? How durable would it be? I don’t know beans about 3-D printing except that it is spreading into various industries.
Done correctly it could be pretty durable. Tone? We won't know until people start trying it.
Thank you kindly.
My question is, why?
With a guitar, having it all one piece makes sense because otherwise you have to glue the neck to the body. But that's not true with a banjo.
What advantage does a 1-piece banjo offer over a neck bolted to a rim? I don't see it.
Gold Tone already makes a polymer based banjo, the AC-series. They're priced under $200 for the most basic models. In what way would making them all one piece lower the price or improve the product?
Edited by - KCJones on 02/03/2025 08:13:15
quote:
Originally posted by BridgebusterI’m curious as to what kind of banjo could be 3-D printed. What would the tone be? How durable would it be? I don’t know beans about 3-D printing except that it is spreading into various industries.
I'm experimenting with a 3D printed Tranjo travel banjo model. It uses a standard Tranjo maple neck mated to several 3D printed parts all mounted on an extruded aluminum support. Even the head assembly is 3D printed. It's very playable due to the wooden neck, and it sounds like a banjo - sort of. The best way to describe the tone is it sounds like a banjo recording played over an AM transistor radio. I sold a couple of the original prototypes at IBMA last September and I'm working on the final design updates before I officially offer it for sale. By using a printed head assembly and inexpensive guitar tuners I can keep the cost way down, probably in the $350-400 range. I'll also try using a printed bridge. So many ideas, so little time...
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Originally posted by CorwynDo we know what Gold Tone is using in their "composite" rims for the AC series?
Thank you kindly.
The rim is a copy of the Bakelite rims found on old Harmony banjos but using a softer plastic (the Bakelite could break apart if dropped). Many companies are using this Chinese rim on low end banjos. As a Saga dealer, I can sell it as the Rover RB-20 (open) and RB-25 (resonator). 5-string, tenor and plectrum versions are available.
My favorite version of that rim was in cast aluminum sold by Saga as the Rover RB-30 (open) and RB-35 (resonator). My daughter has the last one that I had in stock. People liked the combination of light weight and decent tone.
Back on topic, I can't imagine offering a carbon fiber tone ring nowadays. Why not just offer a pot with an integrated tone ring? Perhaps along more traditional lines than a CF retread of the old Harmony.
In any case, I see this as a solution looking for a problem.
Edited by - mikehalloran on 02/03/2025 14:49:34
quote:
Originally posted by mikehalloranquote:
Originally posted by CorwynDo we know what Gold Tone is using in their "composite" rims for the AC series?
Thank you kindly.The rim is a copy of the Bakelite rims found on old Harmony banjos but using a softer plastic (the Bakelite could break apart if dropped). Many companies are using this Chinese rim on low end banjos. As a Saga dealer, I can sell it as the Rover RB-20 (open) and RB-25 (resonator). 5-string, tenor and plectrum versions are available.
Back on topic, I can't imagine offering a carbon fiber tone ring nowadays. Why not just offer a pot with an integrated tone ring? Perhaps along more traditional lines than a CF retread of the old Harmony.
In any case, I see this as a solution looking for a problem.
So we still have no idea what is in that rim.
How is this not a rim with an integrated tone ring?
Clearly the problem is how does one make a cheap light banjo that still sounds reasonably good.
Thank you kindly.
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