If you lean to Earl Scruggs and his playing style, get one of the flatheads. If you seek to play more like Ralph Stanley, then the archtop’s probably preferable.

If you're new buy one of the Belles. I think archtops are for when you know you want an archtop. Alternatively buy all three.

The determining difference is going to have to be if you want an archtop or flathead tone ring. I bought the Whyte Eagle brand new in the 70s and it is a good banjo, ornamental, and heavy as all get-out. The other two are good quality banjos as well. Once you decide which tone ring type you want then I would get the better looking of the two flatheads as the pot configuration is going to be pretty close, if not exact.

Bobby

It is nice to hear conversation about the Alvarez banjos. I have a Denver Belle and a Whyte Eagle that I play regularly. You've already gotten some great advise. The market isn't exactly smiling on the Alvarez banjos right now, so you could simplify the decision as Graham suggested.

I would add that when I bought my Denver Belle, one of the best regional pickers I know (who plays an outstanding prewar Gibson conversion) said "hang onto that one, it has everything you'll ever need in a banjo". Need and want are vastly different motivations, but I really appreciate the build quality and the tone of the '70's Alvarez banjos.

IMO Bill's advice is perfect for a new player. Hopefully, you'll be listening to whichever banjo you choose a lot. So, have an idea what sound attracts your ear the most and play them all. Enjoy the decision making process.

I bought a late 70s Silver Belle as a new player in 1990 because it was the best sounding banjo in Gruhns store in Nashville. I think it was set up better than the others. I didn’t know much about banjos back then and though I own others that sound better, I still consider
the Alvarez to be a good sounding banjo. Great choice for an early stage player.

If all things were equal as far as fit , finish, playability and sound. The Denver Belle.

After sleeping on it, I am going the flathead route. The Denver Belle is the least expensive, with the Silver Belle $100 more. All before negotiation of course. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Thanks!

The silver belle has a clear head and there seems to be some perforated metal disk inside the pot in between the two coordinator rods.

Has anyone ever seen this? Do you know what it is?

It seems to me like it would rattle.

All great banjos. Better in quality and build that Gibson was putting out during the same time period.

Really very, very good values and bang for the buck in today’s banjo market.

If you have the ability to play them, choose the one that you like the feel and the sound of the most.

Denver Belle is a fine instrument.

You really can’t go wrong with any of the 3 choices.

>>there seems to be some perforated metal disk inside the pot in between the two coordinator rods.<<

Be sure you can get whatever that is out of there with no damage before buying it. No clue what that is. Someone who thought it needed a tone enhancer device would be my guess.

Bobby

In anticipation of my new banjo, I did buy this T-shirt. It makes absolutely no sense and I love it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjorado

In anticipation of my new banjo, I did buy this T-shirt. It makes absolutely no sense and I love it.

---

Now I know you are indeed a guitar player, because that tee shirt make absolute sense to us banjo pickers.  ;-)  Brad

I bought a Alvarez Denver bill in 1975. As far as Gibson clone goes, I worked in a store in 70s that sold Alvarez and Ibanez banjos. They were beautiful and well built but when I played a mastertone in 1980, it blew every one of them away sound wise.From my memory Japanese banjos were in the three to $500 range-area and I remember I paid $1000 for my mastertone.

I have a Silver Belle open-back from the same era.

No idea how it compares with the resonator version, but it seems Alvarez turned out some nice instruments. I've had banjos I paid two or three times what I paid for the SB that I ended up selling. I still have the Alvarez. 

Good luck!

Shoulda bought the Whyte Eagle..........

Howdi.

These are my onions.

My first step of advice is if you can play each of those what they actually sound like in reality will affect what you like and dont like.

My basic rule ive found that a poorly set up banjo that sounds good will usually sound great when set up correctly.

Also with these banjos I would look for the 2 piece flange versions of these. Kasuga made some of these in single flange however if you are one of those that follows the old timers festival rules of having a super tight head in order to get the power and bluegrass volume produced, the 2 piece flange hold better with high tension. Single piece flange lovers know that high tension will crack these things over time also depending on the quality of the casting, material etc.

I am a fan of japanese banjos but, again many of these had major flaws, heel cut off, neck angled wrong, lag screws off etc.

My other onion is altho these plants made some fabulous banjos, occasionally here and there, some duds as far as tone rings were made, and no matter what you do it will always sound terrible. Hence test these before you buy or you will end up hating the banjo and will take steps to get rid of it.

As far as I know none of these original japanese were stamped, all hand carved. Stamping, or pressing wood can create stress fractures.

My personal taste is I alway go with the maple resonator. Maple resonators will produce more power, volume and blue grass tone no matter what kind of material the neck is. 

Also note some of these were made in the iida plant and will most likely have an iida tone ring in it. Iida made some amazing tone rings but a few junk duds were cast also. In the early days iida's best ring weighed in at 2lbs and 11ounces. Later rings were brass but much lighter. GTR rings weighed in at about 2lbs and 4 ounces.

thundertone, wow! Your thoughtful and detailed reply had me by the onions.

According to the Alvarez brochures from the mid seventies, all of the belles and the White eagle have bell-brass tone rings. Unfortunately I cannot play each one of these before purchasing, because they are all slung across the country, but I am not too worried about it.

RioStat, I have not had much luck with either of the *belle owners. Though my thoughts are that the flat-top would be a safer choice, I may yet buy the Whyte Eagle. I suspect I could buy a flat-top tone ring and switch it back and forth if I wanted.

I am a new banjo player though. If these were guitars I'd probably buy the best two. I am really a banjo newb though so I think I'll stick with just one. At this time though it is looking like that one may be the whyte eagle. Stay tuned.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banjorado

The silver belle has a clear head

---

It also appears to have an archtop tone ring. It doesn't appear to be a standard flathead at least.

Howdi.

Going to also throw in some info,...

Around early 2000s, in 2004 a round of Korean Alvarez banjos were made in the tune of the 1st generation Alvarez
and they are fabulous banjos.

I have a Korean Whyte Eagle made for St Louis music and it's an absolute tone monster. These were also made w the imprint markings in the Denver Belle look. There is one for sale rt now on Reverb.

I think these retailed for 1499 in 2004, 2005 which is pretty high back then. These have the heel carve, pearl markings etc, imprinting the 1st generation Japanese.

>>I may yet buy the Whyte Eagle. I suspect I could buy a flat-top tone ring and switch it back and forth if I wanted.<<

Not sure about this. The rim on the WE is a different width than the standard rims that most conversion tone rings are made for. That being said, you could have it cut down to fit but then the arch-top wouldn't work if you decided to go back to it. Recheck your dimensions on the rim to be sure if you are serious about converting the WE to a flat-head.

Bobby

at one time in my vicinity the alverez was the go to masterclone but putting a ryan ring into it changed the dud to a ding--can't say they were all like that though--

In the late ‘70s I lusted after a Denver Belle as a newb I really didn’t know much about banjos. I had a chance to play one and it sounded great. Never got one, though, as my wife got me a custom archtop that I still love today.

GrahamHawker Upon closer inspection you are correct. The silver belle is an archtop. I hadn't noticed that before and it never caught my eye because it must have been modified and I didn't expect it. It's easier to see the archtop edge on a frosted head. The store that had that one was unwilling to negotiate, so I moved on. Never get emotionally attached to the deal, eh?

Silver Belle

Thank you everyone for your help. I have decided on the Whyte Eagle. The Denver Belle was a serious contender in theory, but this particular one was quite a bit rougher than the Whyte Eagle, though it was priced as such. The store came down $150 on the Denver Belle and I could have picked it up for $549. it's listed on Guitar Center's website for $699 but like I said, it was a bit rougher. The store never bothered to clean it up before listing it, and it still has someone's set list scotch taped to the resonator.

Denver Belle

But anyway, I went with the whyte eagle which I verified as a 70's Japanese Alvarez. The seller was super cool, and though he was unable to discount it, he did give me free overnight shipping to my local GC, and threw in some goodies like new strings, a set of fingerpicks, and other stuff he said he'd surprise me with; so I don't really know what's coming in the case.

The Whyte Eagle was $900 and I didn't start out to spend that much money for my first banjo, but here we are.

Here are pictures (but I can only upload three at a time, every fifteen minutes.)

More photos...

It seems to have been hardly touched, because it looks new. That could be a good thing (someone's un-played case-queen) or a bad thing (It was unplayable when new and so someone just left it in the closet)

I guess we'll see tomorrow.

FYI, the guy at GC was knowledgeable about banjos and played it a little. He didn't raise any red flags. He also said it appeared to be in remarkably good condition for a 50 year old instrument.

He did not send pictures of the case, because he was the only one at the store at the time and the case was upstairs. So the condition of the case is a mystery.

Overall I am quite pleased. I've seen this banjo go for 50% more, in seemingly worse condition.