phb You raise a fair point about hardware and other components. Everyone will certainly feel a bit of it. Overall though, large picture, the tariffs are meant to give domestic products an advantage over imported. Everything else is just how you slice the pie. Whatever tariffs are imposed, if any, we can be sure of one thing, they will not be a simple blanket "add 20% to everything" type of rule. There will be specific categories listed and specific categories excluded. It's entirely possible, and not unreasonable to expect, that the tariffs won't even apply to music instruments. They might just focus on industrial products, or maybe just a specific market sector like automobiles. Who knows?

As a note, we also run into this issue with BABA (Buy America) rules. Prior BABA rules only applied to steel/ferrous products, but a new rule released last year extends the rule to 'manufactured products'. This includes things like train control bungalows, which contain circuit boards and chips that are only manufactured overseas. This means that for federally funded train control improvement projects, of which there are many, there is no legal source for the control boards. This is, obviously, a problem. Arguably a much bigger problem than tariffs on consumer goods. But nobody's talking about it, I wonder why?

This is a bit of a thread jack, but I want to point out a phenomenon that's occurring here. And I'm a bit guilty of it too so please don't read judgment into this.

Tariffs have always existed. Free Trade Agreements are a fairly modern concept. Tariffs and Free Trade are also not the only aspects of economic protectionism or international economic relations. Other countries impose tariffs on the US, and other countries subsidize certain industries to compete with US brands. (E.G. South Korea basically subsidized the entire operation of Kia and Samsung so they could compete with US-companies). This isn't anything new or out of the ordinary, despite what the media would have you believe. But right now, the only thing anyone is talking about is new tariff. Why is that? And if you read this thread, or any other online discussion, or even any discussion about it at the local watering hole, what do you hear? You read and hear people simply regurgitating what the talking head on their preferred media outlet says. There is very little original thought or critical analysis going on here. Some, yes, but it's a minority.

What's my point, anyway? My point is this: If you're reading this, ask yourself something. Did you ever think about tariffs before the news media decided you should be upset about them? Do you now suddenly have strong feelings about tariffs, that you didn't have before? How much did you read about international economics and trade agreements before last year? And this is either way, too, your position of support isn't the critical issue, it's how much you suddenly care and if that is congruent with your past behavior. Do you find yourself suddenly upset that we can't have free trade with another country, or alternatively do you find yourself suddenly excited that we have new tariffs? Ask yourself, where did these strong feelings come from? Are you being manipulated? Don't be a sucker.

KCJones, nobody is talking about train control boards because that's too much of a niche product. Unlike, of course, banjos.

Well, it's not the media that brought the topic to the forefront, is it? The media only reacts to what is thrown out there. And what was thrown out there was new tariffs for no apparent reason that I can see other than a love affair for tariffs.

Personally, I have pretty much ceased listening to or watching any media at all, they all seem full of B.S.of one stripe or the other, it's all the same in the end. Yes, let's sit back and watch all this unfold.

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Originally posted by Jbo1

KCJones, nobody is talking about train control boards because that's too much of a niche product. Unlike, of course, banjos.

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Yeah, I own two banjos and zero trains.  My brother-in-law, however, owns one train set (HO scale?) and zero banjos.

Not sure if his controller is included in the tariffs, as it's quite different.

I'm no economist, and I don't know how apparent it might be, but I suspect the reason (?) is so the haves can have more, and the have-nots can have less.

Edit: KC you're right about media trying to mold our thinking but last time we were out the topics up for discussion were the impending knee replacement of one of the guys / who was absent from the gathering with much speculation as to why /comparing current weather to "when I was a kid" /  horses we had back in the day and our riding exploits / close calls when swimming as kids / etc.   I figure it has something to do with the age of the group's participants.    The community just down the road is starting their bonspiel tonight .... their ad in the yocal weekly  says, "....come for the fun and the food."  We'll be going for the food ... now I'll be watching/waiting to see if "the topic" comes up.

"Never mind Quebec maple syrup"

The US of course relies on trade from Canada, and if I was in the market for a new guitar, I'd be concerned about prices increasing, given that the best new guitar I've played is a Boucher, and imo un-aged Collings and Martin guitars, while very nice, don't come close. I'm not aware of any noteworthy Canadian banjo manufacturers. 

That said, I think Canadians way overestimate the importance of Quebec maple syrup in the US. Most Americans only use the flavored-corn-syrup kind of "maple-flavoured syrup," and Americans think of maple syrup as a Vermont thing, not a Quebec thing. I live in Minnesota, and our grocery stores sell local Minnesota maple syrup. I get that Quebec maple syrup is a big cultural thing in Canada, but that just doesn't transfer down here. Real maple syrup is kinda seen as a luxury good by many, so its increase in price won't have a large effect on the American psyche. 

To answer one question posed here, yes many of us think about tariffs outside the current news cycle. Small business owners like myself often do.

Now as for the masses, they are thinking about them more now than ever because paycheck to paycheck is more prevalent now, and increases in goods can leave you sleeping in your car real quickly.

But yes, tariffs have always been around and free trade is a 30 year experiment thats ending for the few countries that have enjoyed it. Most countries are tariffed as always.

re Quebec maple syrup,, I mentioned it as a joak/ joke…. sort of like tariffs on hockey pucks or Canuckian bacon…. ;)

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Originally posted by matthewfbyrnes

 

"I'm not aware of any noteworthy Canadian banjo manufacturers."

Rickard and Romero were mentioned earlier as examples of Canadian banjo makers. I consider both of them quite noteworthy. 

Matthew Byrnes said he was unaware of “noteworthy” Canadian banjo makers. Given the presence of Jason Romero and Bill Rickard, who produce excellent banjos in small quantities, I’m wondering if a banjo maker becomes “noteworthy” based on quantity, rather than excellence. Only Deering, and maybe Gold Tone, that I’m aware of, combine excellence (at least in some models) and quantity. I don’t know that Ome, known for excellence, and readily available, ever made more than 200 banjos a year. Bart Reiter built about 150, maybe a few lmore in some years. I don’t know how many Rickard makes—but it’s not a lot. Romero makes a few, but his 5-year wait time attests to his noteworthiness. The tariffs Trump says he’ll place on Canadian goods will likely affect their sales, Romero’s lass than Rickard’s.

Tariffs are a way of life in most of the world.
Buying a vehicle in most African countries cost double the US price.
Besides as has been said, It seems to be more of a negotiating tool, or some say a threat.

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Originally posted by chuckv97

Maybe I don’t get it,,, if tariffs make imported goods more expensive , and that bolsters USA goods purchases , again,, how can these domestic companies instantly fulfill the extra demand for their products? Doesn’t it take a lot of planning, hiring, training, retooling, etc to meet the demand? And if that takes time , won’t the supply/demand process make domestic products more expensive?

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I'm not convinced that the ubiquity of something is necessarily a good measure of it's intrinsic worth.

And as evidence I offer up something equally as widespread .... Mothers everywhere:  "I don't care if everybody is _______________________ ."

Bill Rogers I didn't know Rickard was Canadian. I've never heard of Romero (which isn't a judge of their quality -- I'm sure many excellent banjos are made by luthiers whose names I don't know).

I guess what I was trying to say is that none of the big household-name banjo makers are Canadian (Gold Tone/OME, Recording King, Deering/Goodtime, Nechville, Huber, etc.), but a few of the household-name guitar makers are (Godin, Seagull, Larrivee, etc.). I wasn't trying to disparage the craftsmanship of Canadian banjo luthiers.

If someone's on a five-year waiting list for a banjo, they probably have the resources to pay the increased price the tariffs bring. A 16-year-old whose been saving up for an Art and Lutherie guitar will feel the sting of the increased prices. The Canadian tariffs will hit the guitar world a lot harder than the banjo world.

I think the guitar world needs a huge tariff. They have been waaay overproduced. I have 23 in storage that people gave me when they gave up, because they know I play. None of them are worth enough for me to take time to sell. Used market bleeds them.

What "market forces" caused ^^ overproduction?   ... or did subsidies distort the "market"?  ... or???

Edit: Is the idea of a tariff to curtail production or just shift it [from one country to another]?

Edit#2: Fwiw, I've also heard of Carl Arcand at https://www.secondlifebanjo.com/  [No idea of numbers.]

Tariffs in the 19th c. were to raise money to run the government. Standard stuff. What the newly announced tariffs are for is a good question. If they are designed to punish governments, they won’t because governments don’t pay the tariffs. They will raise consumer prices because importers and wholesalers aren’t going to absorb the cost. Beyond that, who knows?

Anthony, that ^^ scenario sounds like the end result is that the hard-earned disposable income will be disposed of on tariffs.   Same payer, different pocket??

[No idea how "it" was done in McKinley's day, but my logic says that IF it worked well it would still be the M.O.]

Coincidence er what?!?!?   Just sat down and my book was opened at this .... but better you hear it from my man Merle than me:

I had a Honda / Yamaha motorcycle dealership for 45 years. When the major Japanese motorcycle manufacturers started making large touring motorcycles, at a much lower price than Harley Davidson touring bikes, Harley got the government to put tariffs on imported motorcycles. A lot of dealers of imported motorcycles were full of doom and gloom for a while, but those tariffs didn't seem to bother my sales at all. The price of my merchandise went up a little, but didn't seem to hurt my sales. I don't know how much it helped Harley, but it didn't hurt me at all, and my customers weren't complaining about the price. Harley survived, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and all the smaller imported bikes survived, so I guess in my case, everything turned out all right.

Dave, in your ^^ example, what was the stated purpose / objective of the tariff on imported touring bikes?

I know that some buyers avoid buying from California sellers because of the 8%+ sales tax. So I think it’s safe to assume a 25% tariff will affect purchase decisions.