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Jan 16, 2025 - 10:28:19 PM
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4 posts since 12/19/2024

I've searched the forums for this question but haven't found any answers so I'm posing it to all of you here: How do I keep the hex nuts tight on the bracket hooks of my old Vega? Several of them keep coming lose (usually around where the banjo rests on my leg when sitting or where my arm rests on the rim). I obviously don't want to tighten them down too much as it'll affect the tuning of the head, and I'm hesitant to use Loctite, but I don't know what else will work. Appreciate your recommendations!

Jan 16, 2025 - 10:40:54 PM
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28473 posts since 6/25/2005

Tighten them a quarter turn past where they need to be for the head tension you want. They will loosen over time because of the constant sound vibrations. That’s what bracket wrenches are for. In the more than 60 years I’ve been playing, I have never had a banjo that you could tighten the head and forget it.

Jan 17, 2025 - 3:34:40 AM
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KCJones

USA

3424 posts since 8/30/2012

The best way to prevent banjo nuts from turning loose is getting a guitar.

Alternatively, a bracket wrench in the case like Bill says.

Or Loctite Red, if you're not particularly fond of the next generation.

Jan 17, 2025 - 3:53:16 AM
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111 posts since 11/28/2017

Loose hex nuts are just part of the life of a banjo; as was already noted, the constant vibrations will inevitably loosen them. It's easily remedied by checking them whenever you're doing routine maintenance - for example, when changing strings, or when oiling the fingerboard. Just take the proper wrench and check that they're firmly seated. I check the nuts perhaps every other month; over the years that's proven to work just right, and it only adds about two minutes to my maintenance work.

And please, don't use Loctite! It's way too strong for this sort of delicate operation. It will make changing the head a nightmare, and will certainly piss off any luthier working on your banjo.

Jan 17, 2025 - 4:30:04 AM
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5603 posts since 11/20/2004

Try a dab of fingernail polish on the threads. It serves as a light duty loctite.

Jan 17, 2025 - 5:00:35 AM
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625 posts since 4/11/2019

I know its wrong, but I've got one or two that just wont stay even slightly tight. A small dab of Elmers on the thread, mostly just to keep from losing the hex nut

Jan 17, 2025 - 5:47:56 AM
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364 posts since 6/5/2006

I use small brass lock washers. They also make it easier to keep the tightness of the hooks uniform and avoid the bottoming out of closed nuts.


 

Jan 17, 2025 - 6:09:22 AM

1395 posts since 10/23/2003

quote:
You would be surprised that how many people in the old time world do not know they have to periodically tighten the brackets through the nuts.   I once was handed a banjo to play at a commemoration of Dena Epstien's life at the U of Tennessee  Library by its owner, an esteemed librarian, and a bracket came off in his handing it to me, and I had to explain to him he needed to tighten them.
Here in S Florida, and I imagine other places in the South or with extreme climate variation,  you need to be loosening and tightening your head with the variation between playing outside in the heat and humidity, and then going inside to super air conditioned homes, or playing rooms.  I keep a wrench for loosening and tightening in the banjo case as a rule
Originally posted by Bill Rogers

Tighten them a quarter turn past where they need to be for the head tension you want. They will loosen over time because of the constant sound vibrations. That’s what bracket wrenches are for. In the more than 60 years I’ve been playing, I have never had a banjo that you could tighten the head and forget it.


Jan 17, 2025 - 6:33:48 AM
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Corwyn

USA

1716 posts since 1/9/2006

FYI: Loc-Tite comes in a selection of strengths (and corresponding colors). I can never remember the order, but you might try the lightest duty stuff (purple?).

Thank you kindly.

Jan 17, 2025 - 6:50:14 AM

1395 posts since 10/23/2003

It is your job as a banjo owner to adjust the tension on the head by tightening and loosening the nuts that hold down the brackets.   
DONT PUT LOCKTITE OR ANY SIMILAR SUBSTANCE ON YOUR BRACKETS OR YOUR BOLTS.  That can wreck your banjo.  The banjo's brackets and nuts and attaching parts are designed to have some give  to deal with changes in the head which are caused by playing and changes in the temperature and humidity.  
 Particularly if you have a skin head  changes in the humidity such as you get by going from an air conditioned places to the outdoors even if there is not temperature change,  can loosen or tighten the head and thus loosen the brackets. Playing can loosen the nuts and thus loosen the brackets.  
Especially if you have a skin head, dealing with the head and the changing amount of pressure it is putting on the brackets is an ever-changing reality that you have to take into account in owning a banjo.  Especially if you have a skin head it is kind of like the banjo is alive and always needs a bit of care.
   
.  You must  have a wrench or other device to tighten and loosen them.  Stewmac or Elderly, or Deering and many others sell bracket wrenches for the nuts and brackets.  If you have small socket wrenches for other stuff  that fits, that can do just as well.
 Examining the nuts and brackets and tightening  or looosening them is part of the regular life of being a banjo player.  As you advance as a banjoist, you will develop a taste for how tight you like the head to be and how loose you like the head to be and what conditions of playing or weather will change that,.   If you have a teacher or know more experienced banjo players, ask them what they do.  
Welcome to the club!
 
Basically, your banjo's head and bracket system have to be maintained and looked after.

Edited by - writerrad on 01/17/2025 07:08:04

Jan 17, 2025 - 7:06:31 AM
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KCJones

USA

3424 posts since 8/30/2012

Fun tangential fact: split-lock washers have been studied extensively, including a notable report published by NASA, and the research shows that split-lock washers actually increase the rate of vibration-induced fastener loosening.

Tangentially related, if anyone knows of a lock washer that actually works and can withstand locomotive axle loads, I know a guy that will buy about ten million of them.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19900009424

Jan 17, 2025 - 7:11:52 AM
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RB3

USA

2264 posts since 4/12/2004

The red Loctite is intended for "permanent" applications and the blue Loctite is intended for "reversible" applications. A very small amount of the blue Loctite would be most appropriate for your application.

Also, a Google search for "shake proof washers" will give you results for a whole bunch of different types of washers that may offer a solution. A lot of those types of washers should be available at most hardware stores.

What the banjo world really needs is a nylon insert tension hook lock nut.

Edited by - RB3 on 01/17/2025 07:21:00

Jan 17, 2025 - 7:14:51 AM

Owen

Canada

16497 posts since 6/5/2011

I bought my banjos new about 13ish years back.   They're both very modestly priced, a Morgan Monroe and a GoldTone.  So far, the nuts haven't invariably loosened ... how long should I reasonably expect to have to wait?  wink

To go onto a bit of a tangent, I've mostly used medium gauge strings but decided to try medium-lights, so I figured I might as well incorporate a good (?) cleaning [the MM's first] in with the string change [probably the banjo's second].   I didn't remove the tuners or the neck-to-pot, but pretty much everything else was fair game.    I hope I didn't screw up the nuts ability  to stay how I put them.

It's farther off onto a tangent, but re. the string swap, I ended another post in another thread with, "We shall see."   What I see [hear?] so far is a rather "wimpy" sound in comparison to the medium ones.  .... And if wimpy isn't fully accepted into the lexicon alongside the other subjective, vague, wishy-washy, open-ended, mostly meaningless (?) terms used to describe [banjo] sounds I'm gonna be mucho disappointed.  sad

Edited by - Owen on 01/17/2025 07:25:23

Jan 17, 2025 - 7:23:10 AM

1395 posts since 10/23/2003

I should have mentioned since the thread started with someone with an old Vega that I own and play as my lead banjo a late 1923 to 1924 Vega Tubaphone. I also play a 1893 Fairbanks Electric. You find that the specially-designed-for -banjos bracket wrenches handle the problem of the size and length of the cap nuts on banjos better than what I consider a regular shop socket wrench. Just google "banjo bracket nut wrench" and find a vendor you want. Since I have 5 working banjos, I prefer the 3-way type that can be used on banjos with different sized nuts and brackets!

Jan 17, 2025 - 7:35 AM
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GS

UK

187 posts since 11/24/2023

Spot welding, I find, does the trick.

Jan 17, 2025 - 8:41:32 AM
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101 posts since 5/28/2010

quote:
Originally posted by restreet

I use small brass lock washers. They also make it easier to keep the tightness of the hooks uniform and avoid the bottoming out of closed nuts.


Exactly what I use. In spite of what Nasa says (?!), since I started using these more than a decade ago, I've found the nuts don't budge.

As restreet notes they're also handy way of keeping the tightness uniform. Just snug the nuts till the washer closes, and you know they're even all the way 'round.    

Jan 17, 2025 - 8:45:52 AM
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16101 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by writerrad
Here in S Florida, and I imagine other places in the South or with extreme climate variation,  you need to be loosening and tightening your head with the variation between playing outside in the heat and humidity, and then going inside to super air conditioned homes, or playing rooms. 

Here in the Washington, D.C., area, we have such extremes between the humid summers and dry winters, that the door to our powder room shrinks so much that right now the latch barely grabs the strike plate. Next month, it might not grab at all.

So even though their heads are plastic, I figure my banjos must be reacting to this, too.

Jan 17, 2025 - 9:37:31 AM

505 posts since 2/22/2019

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

The best way to prevent banjo nuts from turning loose is getting a guitar.

 


Get a Nechville Heli-mount.  To paraphrase SteelyD  "... no brackets at all!"  

Jan 17, 2025 - 9:42:15 AM

KCJones

USA

3424 posts since 8/30/2012

I guess if you want inconsistent head tension and the weird overtones that come with it, then definitely get a Nechville.

Jan 17, 2025 - 10:09:30 AM
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898 posts since 5/29/2015

Strangely enough, I find lock washers on most of the inexpensive bottle cap banjos I service.

The really hard-to-keep tight banjos are the old circa 1900 banjos with 38+ tension hooks. So little tension on each hook that they are constantly coming loose.

Jan 17, 2025 - 10:29:52 AM

1395 posts since 10/23/2003

:Oh I went to American University (in DC) in the mid 1960s when WAMU was in a room smaller than closets in my house today.   I have seen the Gentlemen at the Shamrock with the original lineup and will always feel MR. ADCOCKS NEVER GOT HIS DUE RECOGNITION.  I did try to spend the summer of 1967 in an unairconditioned apartment of a friend, but went back to Connecticut for the rest of that summer because I couldnt take it even though I was a child of only 20 years.
Even back in the  60s,  the humidity in the summer in the District was much worse than anything I have experienced in 42 years of living in South Florida.   Those who do not know the DC area is in a bowl of low land with rivers and such going through it, surrounded by hills and mountains that prevent circulation  Northern Florida where much of the old time music activity is can get as bad as the District.  
 w
Jan 17, 2025 - 10:36:32 AM

1395 posts since 10/23/2003

quote:
Originally posted by GS

Spot welding, I find, does the trick.


The nuts need to be adjustable for you to loosen and tighten the head.   Especially if you have a skin head banjo like I do have on a couple of mine, you will have a ripped head or a sloppy floppy head with no tension if you cannot adjust the head tension with the head screws.  You can have a little less damage with a Remo or Fiberskin, but if you cannot operate those screws  you wont have a banjo.

Jan 17, 2025 - 2:00:29 PM

505 posts since 2/22/2019

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

I guess if you want inconsistent head tension and the weird overtones that come with it, then definitely get a Nechville.


Hmmm never a problem here.

Jan 17, 2025 - 2:06:01 PM

lucas73b

Netherlands

145 posts since 3/8/2006

Plumber's tape.

Jan 18, 2025 - 9:56:09 AM

4 posts since 12/19/2024

quote:
Originally posted by RB3

The red Loctite is intended for "permanent" applications and the blue Loctite is intended for "reversible" applications. A very small amount of the blue Loctite would be most appropriate for your application.

Also, a Google search for "shake proof washers" will give you results for a whole bunch of different types of washers that may offer a solution. A lot of those types of washers should be available at most hardware stores.

What the banjo world really needs is a nylon insert tension hook lock nut.


Thanks for that info. I agree! A nylon insert would be the perfect solution for those old banjos that have worn bracket threads. 

Jan 18, 2025 - 9:58:20 AM

4 posts since 12/19/2024

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers

Tighten them a quarter turn past where they need to be for the head tension you want. They will loosen over time because of the constant sound vibrations. That’s what bracket wrenches are for. In the more than 60 years I’ve been playing, I have never had a banjo that you could tighten the head and forget it.


Thanks Bill. I get it. There are just a few brackets that seem to have worn threads. It's  100 years old banjo that's probably changed hands a dozen times so I was just hoping for a solution I hadn't either come up with yet or dismissed. Cheers!

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