The scoop is not a gimmick, but it is not necessary either. For folks who want to play over the end of the neck, it makes it easier to avoid hanging up the thumb on the neck. It seems to have been developed by urban players post-1970. Rural players who played over the neck did so without a scoop. If you are running into the tension hoop, your hand is probably not far enough over the neck. Personally, I have never played over the neck, because I prefer the sound and string tension a little closer to the bridge. You’ll get a lot more opinions, and they will vary. Bottom line—it’s your banjo, play it as you wish, remembering that there is no “right” way to play clawhammer style as long as you play in tune and keep time correctly. It’s all a matter of player preference.  Here'S a link to a video by Chris Coole, one of the very best over-the-neck players. Notice his right hand position. His fretboard isn't scooped, but it does have a sort of notch under the fifth string where his thumb hits.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymd1cXHZpEM

Yup, you're not far enough over the neck.

I play where I'm comfortable. On my regular scale banjo, that's right at the neck/pot juncture and, yup, I sometimes whack the tension hoop. On my A-scale, I'm right in the scoop.

If I'm hitting the tension hoop, I just shift the banjo one way or the other on my leg...

Hey, the BANJO itself is a gimmick. But if it works for you and you enjoy it, why not? To scoop or not scoop, that is the question. Thumb scoops are especially good for low action necks, Your banjo, your choice. banjered

Your hand hitting the tension hoop is a common problem. The best solution is to adjust your hand so that it doesn't hit the tension hoop. 

I would not call it a "gimmick", but it is proof that "old time" banjo is not actually "old" but rather nostalgic.

The Scoop is part of the modern evolving "old time" banjo that has developed from festival jam culture. The origins of the modern scoop (opposed to the aesthetic design of early rimmed banjos) likely came from the hands of the late Bob Flesher in or around 1965.

Since that time the "old time" banjo has evolved with shorter scales, the creation of the "A Scale", centrally place bridges (to alter the tone), and an interesting but nostalgic aesthetic of unplated brass parts and stained heads, etc..

All of this is great, but I do get bothered when this is applied as presentism to classic era banjos. Particularly when these are "scoped". Since many banjos are being made today with scoops and wire strings, there is no need to alter classic era banjos (which work fine for "old time" when set up period correct).

I don't think this was mentioned yet, but the area right over the scoop tends to be a tonal "sweet spot" on many banjos, which is why some players want to pick there. It is true that you don't see scoops on older instruments used to play "old time" music when it was just "now time" music, but then again, most of those instruments had/have extremely high action (lots of space between the strings and the fretboard), which is not preferred by modern players. Strings closer to frets means playing strings over the frets is more challenging, ergo the scoop.

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Originally posted by Joel Hooks

I would not call it a "gimmick", but it is proof that "old time" banjo is not actually "old" but rather nostalgic.

The OED defines gimmick as " A gadget; spec. a contrivance for dishonestly regulating a gambling game, or an article used in a conjuring trick; now usually a tricky or ingenious device, gadget, idea, etc., esp. one adopted for the purpose of attracting attention or publicity."

I suppose by the above definition, the scooped end of the fingerboard qualifies as a gimmick.  As Joel Hooks clearly stated, the idea was introduced as a gimmick by the festival culture that emerged in the 1980s in order to achieve a sound that was clearly not traditional, but rather a sound that was created as an ideal by urban revivalists with mohawks, nose rings, tatoos and trust funds.  With a few notable exceptions, old-timers who came up in the tradition favored the resonator banjo sound.  If you care about the actual tradition of the five-string banjo, it emerged from the pop-culture banjo orchestra craze that filtered into the rural settings, not the other way round. 

What Joel Hooks and Eulalie said above…I guess I’m just really biased, but never saw or played a banjo with a scoop that I liked on any level. Always thought it was a gimmick or another useless “bell and whistle” to help facilitate bad playing. I’m probably wrong on all accounts, but I’m sticking to it.

That being said, some amazing builders are crafting instruments with scoops on a level of artistry and build that is above anything built 70-100+ years ago, people are buying them, and very talented musicians are using them, so maybe there is something to it…then again, I prefer a manual transmission…

I think we have had several generations of "old timers." In the 1840's when the Minstrel shows took off people were banging out out banjos with whatever they had lying around, hoops of all sorts, an involuntary house cat, you name it, and resonators weren't even thought of that much. Then early in the 20th century enter the resonator banjo for a new generation of aspiring "old timers." Now we got both. As often said, "tradition" is a moving target. Are the "Urban revivalists" the new and upcoming "old timers?" Reminds me of what my brother said about a friend, "That Glenn, he can hardly wait to be "an old timer." Well he made it but he went beyond that goal and now he is history like all of eventually will be, along with our banjos. Ha! banjered

The scoop is now, arguably, a 'standard' option on open-back banjos, with full fretboards being the alternative option. At least looking at product listings and inventories, that's what I see. Purely from a business standpoint, it stands to reason that more scooped banjos are being made because that's what the market is demanding. To me, a gimmick means something that doesn't actually provide any function. If it's functional, it's at least partially not a gimmick. And I think all the people that seek out a scooped banjo, a group that clearly outnumbers those that do not, they would say it is functional and not a gimmick.

I've never had a hard time frailing over the 19th fret without a scoop, and most of my old-time/clawhammer/frailing nowadays is done on a Huber Vintage Workhorse (because it has the best tone regardless of style, and more accurately reflects the tradition). But a scoop does seem to have enough function that it's not really a 'gimmick'.

I wonder, if a scoop is a gimmick, what else is? Are fretboard side markers a gimmick? What about frets, technically speaking you don't really need them at all. Heck even the fretboard itself is arguably unnecessary, just ask Deering and Fender.

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Originally posted by KCJones

I wonder, if a scoop is a gimmick, what else is? Are fretboard side markers a gimmick? What about frets, technically speaking you don't really need them at all. Heck even the fretboard itself is arguably unnecessary, just ask Deering and Fender.

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I understand the point you are making, but simply because something has become popular does not mean that it passes the test for common sense, logic and/or utility.  Remember the market battle between Betamax and VHS?  Everyone who understood the products agreed that the former was the better product, but the latter had more aggressive and thus more successful marketing.  Does deluding the public into thinking something bad is good make it so? Not in my world.

In my opinion, removing the frets at the end of the fingerboard limits the use of those upper notes that were intended to be available on original historical banjos.  Apparently this was done initially so players could get what Gary Hawk described as "that bassy fretless sound."  That sound was essentially a fad among young players 40 years ago, and the removal of those frets made it possible to get that sound and have a lower action as well.

The OED defines Innovation as “The action of innovating; the introduction of novelties; the alteration of what is established by the introduction of new elements or forms.” Interestingly, innovation was formerly seen in a less favorable light, or as a sly and underhanded mode of deception. 

SS Stewart had a thing or two to say about the tiresome innovation of "raised frets," and while other innovations such as side-dot fretboard markers may help visually, they do not replace the value of a good ear to play in tune,  I happen to be satisfied with traditional banjo setup without innovations such as scoops and bolsters and fancy armrests and clip-on tuners that ruin the finish.  But that's me.  I'm so old-school that I don't even own a phone. 

Eulalie you raise fair points, and I agree with many of them. Popular doesn't mean good, in fact it often means the opposite. "The Rational Consumer" we learn about in economics class is purely theoretical.

The problem though, and I see this with many of the perspectives posted here about contemporary banjo trends, is they're not taking into consideration the actual contemporary players that are buying these banjos. These players, by and large, have almost no historical knowledge of the folk revival of the 60s. They don't have any connection to the "festival scene" described here. Most of them have never even heard the names Fred Cockerham or Tommy Jarrell. Sure that's not everyone, and of course there's young players that study the history, try to understand it, and to emulate it, but they're in the tiny minority.

It's begging the question, ultimately. You're assuming all these things about why players prefer things, that they've somehow been tricked into thinking they prefer a scoop because of some appeal to history. But the truth is, these players don't even know the history, so how could they be tricked into emulating it? The truth is, most of them just like the scoop because it makes it easier for them to play. Is it a technique issue? Maybe, maybe not. Probably, yeah. But that's not the point. It's a bit dubious for any serious musician to say another musician is "playing it wrong", especially with a folk instrument.

A scoop on a modern banjo does not "remove the frets up the neck", because those frets were never present to begin with, nor were they ever going to be used by the player that prefers a scooped fretboard. I have never in my life seen someone try to play up beyond the 19th fret in an old-time fiddle jam. Maybe it happens, but I sure haven't seen it before.

Armrests are another one, and I'm glad you brought them up. They're just as much of a gimmick as a scoop, certainly. They're not necessary at all. But nobody thinks about them as a gimmick for some reason.

I don't feel strongly one way or the other about them, but I think a 5th string scoop is a fair compromise. I find it to be more comfortable on the thumb and you can retain the upper frets, or at least 4/5 of them... The odds of you needing to specifically play the thumb string past fret 17 is virtually zero, I think i've encountered.. one? Bill Keith break that does that.

But truthfully I don't see the hate that fretboard scoops get having anything to do with their functionality or lack thereof, rather its the association in peoples' minds with "inauthentic" modern sensibilities and playstyles. That and perhaps frustration towards the difficultly in finding newly built banjos without them, which is understandable I guess.

As for your question on whether or not its a gimmick, only time will tell. If they're still building them with scoops 50 years from now can you really call it a gimmick?

It’s interesting to watch the many clawhammerists who have scoops but don’t use them.
I do love the sigmoid shaped ones just for looks.

Scoop or no scoop. Probably the best spectator sport on the Hangout.

Gimmick? Steel strings? Frets? Mylar heads? Scoop? Brass on the neck? Arm rest? So many gimmicks. Is a banjo with all these things even a banjo? Should it be allowed or should they be impounded. Should anyone not in a rural setting even play a banjo?

I have an SS Stewart fretless with side dots. Such an outrage. Cheating even. At what point as that not a gimmick?

I like playing over the scoop. That said, I do practice playing over the head on occasion because there are some tunes where I find the tone over there is more suitable but also because some day I may be asked to play on a banjo that either has a fully fretted neck or doesn't have a scoop.

Gimmick or not doesn't matter to me.  If it works, it's another option to try.

If armrests are a gimmick, then chin and shoulder rests for fiddles are as well? Some play without one or the other, both, or neither. I would think things that improve the comfort of an instrument for an individual when needed would only be an aid and not a gimmick, but to each their own. Why question what works for one when it necessarily doesn't for another?

On scoops, I can leave or take them. Some have aesthetic appeal on how they're executed, inlays/no inlays, etc. My main player doesn't have one, and I'm perfectly content with that. Do I use all those frets? No, not necessarily, but I'd rather have them than to need them and not. I prefer to play over the head near the tension hoop, but on a rare instance might move my thumb over the little bit of fingerboard between the 22nd fret and tension hoop to get a different tonal color. Or, I might let my thumb ride between frets 18-19. 

It's all subjective, folks. 

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Originally posted by Noah Cline

It's all subjective, folks. 

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Yes, it is all subjective, and depends upon the individual's goal in playing the banjo in private or in public.  The dispostition of the instrument matters less than whether the player is able to say what he or she wishes to say musically.  A problem arises when the player attempts to sell his or her approach as the "right" way to play this or that tune with this or that technique on this or that instrument.  I prefer plain instruments with no gimmicks.

If it works for you, fine. If you don't need it, fine. If it's an option on a new banjo, go for it - or don't. It doesn't bother me what choice someone else makes.

My main banjo is an open-back without a scoop. I also have an old Silvertone (with a particleboard pot) on which I made a scoop. I frequently use an archtop top tension resonator banjo set up for clawhammer playing, no scoop. Each to your own taste. Vive la difference.

The only real logic I see in a scoop is that if you prefer such a low lefthand action over the fingerboard that it makes righthand work over the fingerboard difficult.

Like lapsteel said, I also like the aesthetics of the "S" shaped scoop.  My Brooks has one, but I don't really need it.  I have a 3/4" bridge, and it gives plenty of fingerboard clearance.

Reference Noah Cline's post above-  he's in the bullseye.

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Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

The only real logic I see in a scoop is that if you prefer such a low lefthand action over the fingerboard that it makes righthand work over the fingerboard difficult.

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Which is the preferred style of 90% of all contemporary players. Low action, neck angled back a couple degrees, 5/8" bridge. And nobody ever plays above the 17th fret. The neck scoop is a logical design choice in this situation. It has nothing to do with some attempt to emulate faux history, as I explained above. 

Considered objectively, the neck scoop provides enough function to not be considered a gimmick. And if it is considered a gimmick, the criteria used to categorize it as such can certainly be applied to things like inlay, side dots, and armrests. 

To be clear: I don't like neck scoops, and I prefer a full fretboard. But despite what many here seem to think, just because you dislike something doesn't mean you have to disparage and diminish it. 

This may be heresy here, and I could be booted out for saying so, but one could argue that all banjos and similar instruments are gimmicks, regardless of details like a scoop. They're basically drums with strings, a mashup of two different types of instruments.