I switched to Rickard tuners for that reason, they have a 10:1 ratio. IMO the fiddle fine tuners are only useful when a change in tone or volume is wanted.

I use Steinberger tuners on some of my banjos. They work very similar to fiddle fine tuners and have an equivalent ratio of 20:1

New tuners! I took a break from banjo for awhile, so I didn't know so many new developments had happened with tuners in the last decade or so. Maybe I'll have to save up for them.

My first banjo had a friction fifth string tuner that was very difficult to adjust. I used a fine adjustment fiddle tuner that can be attached to the section of the string between the end of the tailpiece and the bridge. This approach works quite well, and it requires no modification of the banjo tailpiece. Below is a link to a web page with a photo of such a tuner.

Fiddle Fine Tuner

All the above solutions are good recommendations.

You can also go old school and use one of these:

oettinger.co/

I have them on two of my instruments and I love the ability to adjust and the sound they produce.

The attached photo is from a vintage instrument I have.

There was a chap a couple of years ago had a very nice 2x4 small scale banjo which used fiddle ine tuners, he has photos , link below

https://www.banjohangout.org/archive/381172

Thanks for all the suggestions! I think I'll try out fine tuners on a couple of string to see how I like it, then maybe save up for better tuners or an Oettingers.

I got the banjo for $1k and bought the Keith tuners separately, so I could get dangerously close to spending half of the banjo's cost in tuners/tailpieces if I'm not careful!

Keiths need to be set for the temperature they are used in.
More end screw tension for cooler and less for warmer.
I use 4 Keiths on my main banjo.
Two twisters and two regulars on 1 and 4.
The thing about tuners is you get to keep them if you sell the banjo.

I don't like 10 or 20:1 ratios.
Much too slow and I find all the precision I need in 4:1s.
I didn't like the 2:1 pancakes that came on my tb-2 Those were too coarse.
My 4:1 regular Keiths are smooth as butter.

Oh, interesting. I didn't know about changing the screw tension based on the temperature. I'll have to start paying attention to it.

These are in-line string tuners - run the string thru them in between the bridge and the tail piece.

https://reverb.com/item/52369139-anton-breton-vp-13-1-suzuki-style-violin-fine-tuner-dozen?utm_campaign=US-Shop_unpaid&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google

quote:

---

Originally posted by RB3

 Below is a link to a web page with a photo of such a tuner.

Fiddle Fine Tuner

---

Yes, that's the type I used on my old open-back with the friction pegs and vellum head! Sits on the string between bridge and tailpiece. I had them on all 5 strings, and they worked well. Even when humidity varied during a gig!
The other type of fine-tuner that screws into the violin's tailpiece wouldn't fit on a banjo tailpiece.

BTW when I put nylon strings on my old open-back - keeping the friction pegs and vellum head - I was able to do without the fine-tuners.

Cheers,

John

quote:

---

Originally posted by matthewfbyrnes

 

I have good tuners (Bill Keith tuners), but getting those little micro adjustments still takes longer than I'd like. The 2nd and 3rd strings go out of tune a bit sometimes after playing songs with chokes or pulls.

---

Fine tuners won't fix this.  Your main problem is almost certainly friction in the nut slots.  Even if they are shaped and sized perfectly, and polished nice and smooth, they still need a bit of lubrication to work optimally.  I use soft pencil lead (graphite).

Also make sure you're not wrapping the string too many turns around the peg shaft.  If the string crosses over itself, it can slip or get pinched on the coil underneath.

Hi
I agree with Dan Gellert's comments.
Your Keith tuners are amongst the highest quality available. Correctly set up, they should perform perfectly. However, if you like to play extremely aggressive chokes, there's no tuner that can guarantee the string won't be pulled a little out of tune. I'd concentrate on ensuring that the nut and bridge slots are correctly set, the strings are securely fitted to the tuners and 'played in' for a while, that the head tension is stable, and that you're not attacking the strings over aggressively. Ron Block is famed for his 'choking' style, and he manages perfectly well without any modification to his tuners. He is a member here and is very approachable. Why not ask him for his opinion?

There are very fine guitar tuners out there there with various ratios. that are superior to most banjo tuners as for not not going out of tune, but Arghhh. I know what you will say :) Steen

I went to the local violin shop (House of Note in SLP, MN) and they were selling the fine tuners like the kind wrench13 mentioned for $1 a pop. I bought five of them and put them on, but they affected the sound in a way I didn't like, so I removed all except the 5th string one.

I'll spend some time putting graphite in the nut grooves and adjusting the tuner screws. I haven't oiled my Keith tuners or had them relubricated, but they aren't difficult to turn, so I didn't see the need. Is it worth oiling them or is it best to just wait until issues arise?

Thanks, everybody!

Matthew, those type tuners definitely affect tone, even on fiddles, one reason I never used them. But I could see using on the fifth string on the banjo for sure, to tweak up tuning when using a nail or sliding capo. Might even try one myself!

Concerning aggressive bending throwing the string out of tune:

Get a finger under each string at the last fret and pull it straight up off the neck 1 inch.
Retune to pitch and repeat the straight up 1 inch pull/retune until the string no longer goes flat.
Usually 3-4 pulls.
When the string can't be pulled out of tune it will not go out of tune from being bent or choked.
This "seating" of both ends of the string(s) will also ensure accurate Keith tuner operations.

Wow, I have never seen 4 x Keith tuners on one banjo, what tunes are best for 4 Keith tuners?. 

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

Keiths need to be set for the temperature they are used in.
More end screw tension for cooler and less for warmer.
I use 4 Keiths on my main banjo.
Two twisters and two regulars on 1 and 4.
The thing about tuners is you get to keep them if you sell the banjo.

I don't like 10 or 20:1 ratios.
Much too slow and I find all the precision I need in 4:1s.
I didn't like the 2:1 pancakes that came on my tb-2 Those were too coarse.
My 4:1 regular Keiths are smooth as butter.

---

I have the "twisters" on 2 and 3 only.
On 1 and 4 I have Keith "regular" tuners which are just tuners without the hi-lo locks made with the same precision as the twisters.
There are videos of Bill playing with 4 "twisters".

I tried using those fine fiddle tuners and it was able to be done but over time it was just a hassle so I stopped. It's a pretty cheap experiment.

My friend used one successfully on a banjo with a tunneling 5th string that had too much friction inside the tunnel I guess. It worked okay for him.

@matthewfbyrnes Violin fine tuners are more hassle than good, as I have been told by my luthier: They choke tone and sound projection on violins.

I am pretty happy user of tensionator tailpiece from Clareen banjos on my tenor banjos. So I would recomend to purchase this one from Gold Tone: goldtonemusicgroup.com/goldton...s/5tens-c curently priced at 79.99 USD. And bonus thing about this thingy is: You can use guitar strings. Also I would recomend to recut string grooves in the nut and bridge (if needed) a lubricate them with graphite (soft pencil).

quote:

---

Originally posted by conic

Wow, I have never seen 4 x Keith tuners on one banjo, what tunes are best for 4 Keith tuners?. 

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by steve davis

Keiths need to be set for the temperature they are used in.
More end screw tension for cooler and less for warmer.
I use 4 Keiths on my main banjo.
Two twisters and two regulars on 1 and 4.
The thing about tuners is you get to keep them if you sell the banjo.

I don't like 10 or 20:1 ratios.
Much too slow and I find all the precision I need in 4:1s.
I didn't like the 2:1 pancakes that came on my tb-2 Those were too coarse.
My 4:1 regular Keiths are smooth as butter.

---

Bill's "Auld Lang Syne" uses 4 and Bela's song from "Bluegrass Hearts".Is that one "Vertigo"?

 

 

 

go"?

---

@JackGrave - I might get that. It's affordable. Thanks!

@Conic - John Hartford uses cam tuners on the 1st and 4th in Foggy Mountain Landscape: youtube.com/watch?v=YPRZtBw3Zoc

Thanks, never heard that one but its a very nice tune, on the 1st string he seems to be using both the bar and the tuner to great effect, what a genius

Back in about 1994, Eddie Adcock showed me his original Oettinger tailpiece at a festival, but it was nearly impossible to find one for sale at that time. So, that led me to discovering Steinberger's guitar tuners I found on a Cort headless bass guitar I bought from Rockin'Robin in Houston. Stew-Mac carried them, so I bought a set and installed them on my Stelling Golden Cross after Y2K. Since then, I have had absolutely no tuning issues as they have a 40:1 tuning ratio!! I then put a set on my "new" used Deering GDL after repairing the cosmetic issues. I'll Never use any other tuners. If/when I sell either banjo, I'll keep my Steinbergers.