Im trying to figure out who is playing banjo for charlie monroe on this recording and cant find much info
I was probably J.D. Crowe; he was a pretty good banjo player.
According to the comments in this YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GipWDb3Qnc it was J.D. Crowe, but it is also mentioned about an second unknown player
I'll agree it sure sounds like Crowe. I have that Old Homestead LP, and the sidemen are listed, including JD, and "Unknown 2nd Banjo". Paul Moon Mullins was one of the fiddlers. Recorded Aug 11 1962 in Lexington.
Old Homestead reissued the original LP Rem 1010.
i have a charlie monroe album with kenny ingram playing banjo, one of the songs is "lazy day"
Larry, Charlie made at least one LP with Jimmy Martin's band backing him up. Starday 484. It's a very good album.
thanks dick, gonna have to look for that
quote:
Originally posted by The Old TimerLarry, Charlie made at least one LP with Jimmy Martin's band backing him up. Starday 484. It's a very good album.
Not many people know this about the relationship between Jimmy Martin and Charlie Monroe, but in the early 70s, Charlie got very sick and spent a considerable amount of time in the hospital. He had no health insurance and his medical bills came to about $100,000. Jimmy Martin paid all of Charlie's medical bills. And when Charlie was able, Jimmy took him out on the road to perform. People say lots of bad things about Jimmy, but he had a huge, and generous heart.
I didn’t know that about Jimmy Martin, but it is good to hear.
Thank you for that Lynwood. I had heard "rumors" of Jimmy giving Charlie Monroe a helping hand, like providing the Sunny Mtn Boys for Charlie's back up band, and help getting around to festivals, etc. I had heard Charlie got very sick indeed.
One of the most interesting things about the whole early history is the brotherly hostility between Charlie and Bill Monroe. I wish we could get more on this.
Lester played all sides of the street. Played mandolin and sang tenor with Charlie (i.e. played the "bill" role), then played guitar and sang lead with Bill (i.e. played the "charlie" role). Lester could do it all. Except play banjo and that's why he needed Earl.
quote:
Originally posted by southerndrifterquote:
Originally posted by The Old TimerLarry, Charlie made at least one LP with Jimmy Martin's band backing him up. Starday 484. It's a very good album.
Not many people know this about the relationship between Jimmy Martin and Charlie Monroe, but in the early 70s, Charlie got very sick and spent a considerable amount of time in the hospital. He had no health insurance and his medical bills came to about $100,000. Jimmy Martin paid all of Charlie's medical bills. And when Charlie was able, Jimmy took him out on the road to perform. People say lots of bad things about Jimmy, but he had a huge, and generous heart.
Nice story, that, Lynwood.
Here's one I dug out of the archives that Kenny Ingram posted:
"Ok here's my Jimmy Martin story. In the 3rd week of June in 1978 I went back to work with Jimmy leaving Lester Flatt. Lester's health was failing and Jimmy made me good offer to come back to work for him. I had a fairly slick 1966 Ford LTD 2 door hardtop car I was driving back then. When I was approaching my 26th birthday on August 19th of that year Jimmy started bugging me about wanting to borrowing my car for some reason. I kept asking him why he needed "MY" car and all he would say is "I Need It For Something." So I finally gave in and took it to him when we going on a road trip. Now I'm wondering why he wants my car for something when we're leaving to play some road shows. Anyway were gone for 4 days I think and when we came back to Jimmy's house and drove up in his driveway I'm wondering where is my car????? I saw a car parked there but it wasn't mine. What he had done was had the places fixed on the body of that Ford and completely had the car repainted. The reason I didn't recognize the car was that when we left it was a light blue color & when we returned it was a beautiful dark metallic blue that made the car look brand new!!!! So that was my birthday gift from Jimmy Martin in August of 1978. Like Lynnwood said, there were times when he really had a BIG heart!! "
Eric A, not to go too far off topic, but the Monroe Brothers' "hostility" isn't too hard to understand if you know a bit about both boys' personalities.
Charlie was EIGHT years older'n Bill. That's a big spread. Charlie had older brothers that he hung with and learned from. Bill (family called him "Willie") was surely a hanger on and general pest (besides being cross-eyed and what all else) to Charlie.
Charlie himself was set in his ways and bossy. He got to practice on Bill what Birch and John and Speed practiced on Charlie. When Bill went up to Hammond IN to join his brothers at Sinclair Oil, Charlie and Birch confiscated Bill's pay!!!
Charlie was jolly and gregarious with friends and acquaintances (which Bill seldom ever was). But Charlie was also a successul boss-man, and he BOSSY. As is often stated, they themselves said that they fought like snakes. Any two musicians are going to have all kinds of disagreements about what they play, how they play it, what gigs they take, when/where they're going to move for work, who gets what particular girl. The 8 year older brother fairly naturally presumes he's going to get first say before his younger introverted brother!
There are famous reports about Charlie's SHORT temper dealing with musicians doing "his" repertoire. Like his threat to beat up the musicians at WCYB doing "his" music when he was working there too. Lester Flatt considered getting a pistol to protect himself against "that old man".
If you want to know what a Monroe Brothers show might have gone like, listen to the live tape of Charlie guesting on Bill's show at a country music park in either 53 or 55, right after Bill had a wreck and still had his arm in a cast and couldn't play mandolin on his own show (Charlie Cline played it). Brother Charlie "the guest" TOOK OVER the show. Told Bill what song was next, told jokes at Bill's expense, selected the key, set the speed, and started every song with big guitar rhythm strums. The rest just had to fall in with him. Bill said hardly a word, just mumbled a little bit, and reverted to singing the way he did in the 1930s with Charlie. That little live show kindly shows how Charlie must have dominated their lives together. Well, it made Bill tough, I guess.
When I had a chance to visit Bill's home in 1995 with Nashville friends I immediately noticed that Bill had an old promotional 8x10 black and white of Charlie hanging on the wall!
Here is a little more trivia about the Bill/Charlie Monroe breakup. The Monroe Brothers had a live show on WPTF 800 AM in Raleigh, NC. This was in 1938. I grew up around a musician named "Hash House" Harvey Ellington. He was part of a group called The Tobacco Tags. They had a show that followed the Monroe Brothers. On the day of the Monroe breakup, "Hash House" was in the studio and witnessed the whole thing. He said Bill and Charlie got in an argument over a woman, while on the air! Well, the argument exploded into an actual fist fight in the studio! That was the end of the Monroe Brothers! Bill left town right away but Charlie stayed in the area for a short while. He played a schoolhouse show near where I come from and my grandaddy (who played mandolin and sang tenor) was a part of a local band that opened for Charlie that night. After the show, Charlie offered my grandaddy a job playing mandolin with him. He told my grandaddy that "you play mandolin better than Bill does"! Anyway, my grandaddy declined the offer and soon after, Lester Flatt was hired by Charlie to play mandolin and sing tenor. And as they say, THE REST IS HISTORY!
IIRC, Neil Rosenberg quoted Charlie's explanation for the breakup: "We was hot-headed and mean as snakes."
If you have Mark Hembree's book there's a great story on page 39.
Peter Rowan told to Hembree. They were driving down the road one day. Bill said pull in here. Bill got out walked to the door. A man answered and Bill decked him with a single punch. Bill came back to the car and told Peter to drive. A couple minutes later Peter asked. Bill said "That was Charlie".
I've generally been of the opinion that it wasn't bluegrass until Earl. BUT,BUT, BUT if you listen to those old Monroe Brothers.....yup, it sounds like bluegrass to me.
quote:
Originally posted by Eric AI've generally been of the opinion that it wasn't bluegrass until Earl. BUT,BUT, BUT if you listen to those old Monroe Brothers.....yup, it sounds like bluegrass to me.
How about Carl Story ..."In 1934, he formed the Rambling Mountaineers together with banjo player Johnny Whisnant and guitarists Dudley Watson and Ed McMahan."
"
Carl was a crucially important figure in the early days of bluegrass music, both before, during, and after the big bang in 1945. He played fiddle with Bill Monroe in 1942, when he was already an established performer on radio during the pre-bluegrass hillbilly music days.
The Rambling Mountaineers was a band he formed with banjo great Johnny Whisnant in the mid-1930s."
Edited by - chuckv97 on 12/09/2024 13:11:38
quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97quote:
Originally posted by Eric AI've generally been of the opinion that it wasn't bluegrass until Earl. BUT,BUT, BUT if you listen to those old Monroe Brothers.....yup, it sounds like bluegrass to me.
How about Carl Story ..."In 1934, he formed the Rambling Mountaineers together with banjo player Johnny Whisnant and guitarists Dudley Watson and Ed McMahan."
"
Carl was a crucially important figure in the early days of bluegrass music, both before, during, and after the big bang in 1945. He played fiddle with Bill Monroe in 1942, when he was already an established performer on radio during the pre-bluegrass hillbilly music days.
The Rambling Mountaineers was a band he formed with banjo great Johnny Whisnant in the mid-1930s."
That's pretty cool but Whisnant's playing was much closer to Charlie Poole's style than Earl's. I've always believed the music of Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers had a big influence on what would later be known as "Bluegrass". Poole's music had more singing than most of the stringband music of the day. They also took instrument breaks between the singing, which didn't happen in old-time music of that period. Charlie Poole played banjo with a 3-finger style too, but it was more closely related to the popular Classical style of banjo playing. With the syncopation of the rolls that Earl used in his style, it took the banjo from a background instrument to an upfront and dominant instrument.
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