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This is something I've been flummoxed with for a few years now despite dedicating time to trying to figure it out. I am at a loss how to do this without all three strings ringing at the same time. Best I can come up with is doing a real quick forward roll but it still doesn't sound right.
I know I guy who does this and it sounds amazing but he can't explain how he does it. Even with me watching close up I don't get it. Can anyone here shed light? Any particular exercise to tryout?
I “plant” all 3 left hand (fretting) fingers on the appropriate strings the “rip” off one string at a time quickly with the picking hand, yes, like a quick forward roll. I'd set my metronome at 80 and play each note of the triplet on each click, hit the 5th string on the next click, wait 2 more clicks, and repeat.
Edited by - chuckv97 on 12/01/2024 16:32:18
quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97I “plant” all 3 left hand (fretting) fingers on the appropriate strings the “rip” off one string at a time quickly with the picking hand.
Any way you could demonstrate? I think my issue is getting that opposable thumb to work right. And can you do it with open strings or must they all be fretted?
Another example, with metronome in the first part
share.icloud.com/photos/009fxb...TjA5mI9MA
Thanks Chuck. To me this looks the same as my efforts with the quick roll. I'll have to see if Gary will let me post video of him doing it. It's a pinch that doesn't sound like one.
I think some people plant their right hand thumb and 2 fingers on the string right before they pluck each string in succession quickly. .... now I'm curious how he's doing it,, without all 3 strings ringing together.
Edited by - chuckv97 on 12/01/2024 17:00:37
quote:
Originally posted by Mad HornetThis is something I've been flummoxed with for a few years now despite dedicating time to trying to figure it out. I am at a loss how to do this without all three strings ringing at the same time. Best I can come up with is doing a real quick forward roll but it still doesn't sound right.
I know I guy who does this and it sounds amazing but he can't explain how he does it. Even with me watching close up I don't get it. Can anyone here shed light? Any particular exercise to tryout?
Hi Anthony
It's not that difficult once you know how. Banjo Ben Clark covers triplets in several of his lessons including the forward roll triplet you mention.
As for the three finger pinch he definitely covers that right at the end of the following Intermediate lesson. If you register as a FREE Silver pick member you should be able to unlock this lesson for FREE plus two others without obligation
Anthony, do you mean what Bill is playing at the start of this tune?
youtu.be/sJwz4vp2hys?si=AEcKajopnTCWlwC3
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Hornet
And can you do it with open strings or must they all be fretted?
The only way I can keep strings from ringing out is if they're fretted, so release of fretting pressure kills the sound. I suppose I can damp open strings to kill them with my fretting hand, but I can't think of any examples where I do that. Of course, open strings stop ringing as soon as they're picked or fretted again.
Sorry I don't know exactly what you're referring to.
Something I do that may be close is a triplet of 7-5-4 on strings 3-2-1. Usually followed by open 5th. The first three notes happen in the space/time usually given to two. That's what makes them a triplet. So instead of counting "one and" before playing the open 5th, I count the first three notes "one-and-a" -- and the open 5th is still on the count of two as it would be if preceded by two eighths.
I hear this kind of thing in different parts of the Bill Keith example linked by Chuck. But it's also possible Bill's playing sixteenth-note passages (if we consider the rest to be eighths) which happens a lot in Celtic tunes. Those would be counted "one-ee-and-a two-ee-and-a." If they're triplets in series, then they're "one-and-a two-and-a three-and-a four-and-a." Or just one-and-a two-and-a" over and over (if you're counting as if in 4/4 and not 2/4).
Sorry I'm probably not explaining it right. I'll try to get video later this week when I see him next.
I played with an old timer from Wisconsin who played so fast I asked him the same question.
"How do you do that 3 finger pinch so that it sounds like a roll?"
he said
"Give it 40 years and youll play fast enough that it looks like a pinch but is really muscle memory"
To me it looked like a pinch, to him it was a roll with super precise and fast timing. Now whether its best to think of it as a pinch or roll who knows. But one mans pinch is another mans roll.
quote:
Originally posted by NotABanjoYodaI played with an old timer from Wisconsin who played so fast I asked him the same question.
"How do you do that 3 finger pinch so that it sounds like a roll?"
he said
"Give it 40 years and youll play fast enough that it looks like a pinch but is really muscle memory"
To me it looked like a pinch, to him it was a roll with super precise and fast timing. Now whether its best to think of it as a pinch or roll who knows. But one mans pinch is another mans roll.
You might be on to something. The guy I'm talking about has been playing over 50 years. And he usually does it on slow songs like Amazing Grace or Silent Night. Sounds way better than a three finger pinch.
I’m thinking now it might be what fingerstyle guitarists call a “broken chord”, just a quick roll of the chord with the thumb & fingers. Not a normal triplet.
quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97I’m thinking now it might be what fingerstyle guitarists call a “broken chord”, just a quick roll of the chord with the thumb & fingers. Not a normal triplet.
I will agree it doesn't sound like a normal triplet but I don't know what else to call it. He does it in places where on tablature it would call for a three finger pinch but then plays it so you distinctly hear strings 3, 2, 1 in quick succession - not simultaneously, usually up the neck. I'm still playing around with it and every so often I can do it by accident, but so rare I can't call it up playing a tune. I think I need more relaxed fingers!
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Hornetquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97I’m thinking now it might be what fingerstyle guitarists call a “broken chord”, just a quick roll of the chord with the thumb & fingers. Not a normal triplet.
I will agree it doesn't sound like a normal triplet but I don't know what else to call it. He does it in places where on tablature it would call for a three finger pinch but then plays it so you distinctly hear strings 3, 2, 1 in quick succession - not simultaneously, usually up the neck - and looking at his hand it looks like a pinch, not a roll. I'm still playing around with it and every so often I can do it by accident, but so rare I can't call it up playing a tune. I think I need more relaxed fingers!
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Hornetquote:
Originally posted by Mad Hornetquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97I’m thinking now it might be what fingerstyle guitarists call a “broken chord”, just a quick roll of the chord with the thumb & fingers. Not a normal triplet.
I will agree it doesn't sound like a normal triplet but I don't know what else to call it. He does it in places where on tablature it would call for a three finger pinch but then plays it so you distinctly hear strings 3, 2, 1 in quick succession - not simultaneously, usually up the neck - and looking at his hand it looks like a pinch, not a roll. I'm still playing around with it and every so often I can do it by accident, but so rare I can't call it up playing a tune. I think I need more relaxed fingers!
Anthony, is it what I do at 0:46 and 0:57 ? https://youtu.be/NzmE3ap0xv4?si=9PCAyfUrnAgenMA1
quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97quote:
Originally posted by Mad Hornetquote:
Originally posted by Mad Hornetquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97I’m thinking now it might be what fingerstyle guitarists call a “broken chord”, just a quick roll of the chord with the thumb & fingers. Not a normal triplet.
I will agree it doesn't sound like a normal triplet but I don't know what else to call it. He does it in places where on tablature it would call for a three finger pinch but then plays it so you distinctly hear strings 3, 2, 1 in quick succession - not simultaneously, usually up the neck - and looking at his hand it looks like a pinch, not a roll. I'm still playing around with it and every so often I can do it by accident, but so rare I can't call it up playing a tune. I think I need more relaxed fingers!
Anthony, is it what I do at 0:46 and 0:57 ? https://youtu.be/NzmE3ap0xv4?si=9PCAyfUrnAgenMA1
YES!
Okay,, it works on slower tunes,, it’s that broken chord technique that I mentioned. I just plant all 3 picking fingers right on the strings and quickly “rip” them off in sequence. It took me quite a bit of practice to get the notes evenly spaced when I learned it on guitar years ago.
quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97Okay,, it works on slower tunes,, it’s that broken chord technique that I mentioned. I just plant all 3 picking fingers right on the strings and quickly “rip” them off in sequence. It took me quite a bit of practice to get the notes evenly spaced when I learned it on guitar years ago.
Hi chuckv97
I gotta say that's a really beautiful arrangement of Danny Boy. It's just a pity your hands are not visible in the video. Do you have TABs for it?
quote:
Originally posted by FenderFredquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97Okay,, it works on slower tunes,, it’s that broken chord technique that I mentioned. I just plant all 3 picking fingers right on the strings and quickly “rip” them off in sequence. It took me quite a bit of practice to get the notes evenly spaced when I learned it on guitar years ago.
Hi chuckv97
I gotta say that's a really beautiful arrangement of Danny Boy. It's just a pity your hands are not visible in the video. Do you have TABs for it?
Hi Fred,, the tab is from a Mel Bay book.????
After listening to the clip and understanding what your talking about, that is an offset pinch. Guitarists do it all the time fingerpicking or raking the pick.
It just takes practise and the good news is beginner guitarists learn that in 6 months with practise. No need for 40 years! Youll get it soon enough.
quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97quote:
Originally posted by FenderFredquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97Okay,, it works on slower tunes,, it’s that broken chord technique that I mentioned. I just plant all 3 picking fingers right on the strings and quickly “rip” them off in sequence. It took me quite a bit of practice to get the notes evenly spaced when I learned it on guitar years ago.
Hi chuckv97
I gotta say that's a really beautiful arrangement of Danny Boy. It's just a pity your hands are not visible in the video. Do you have TABs for it?
Hi Fred,, the tab is from a Mel Bay book.????
Can you remember which book?
quote:
Originally posted by FenderFredquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97quote:
Originally posted by FenderFredquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97Okay,, it works on slower tunes,, it’s that broken chord technique that I mentioned. I just plant all 3 picking fingers right on the strings and quickly “rip” them off in sequence. It took me quite a bit of practice to get the notes evenly spaced when I learned it on guitar years ago.
Hi chuckv97
I gotta say that's a really beautiful arrangement of Danny Boy. It's just a pity your hands are not visible in the video. Do you have TABs for it?
Hi Fred,, the tab is from a Mel Bay book.????
Can you remember which book?
Not off hand,, go to Mel Bay website and look through their bluegrass banjo books,, they give titles if u click on content. Let me know if'n ya can't find it. I got it from an older out of print book from the 1970's.
edit: I forgot,, it's called Londonderry Air in the book. Here's the link https://www.melbay.comhttps//www.melbay.com/Products/93345EB/complete-bluegrass-banjo-method.aspx
dunno what's wrong with that link , so here's the book image:
Edited by - chuckv97 on 12/03/2024 12:55:36
I know a lot of people depend on tab but how do you think Jack Baker creates all those cool tabs?
I think he can just hear it.
Hi Laurence,
Thanks for the observation. Yes, I spend thousands of hours trying to perfect every tab I put out. I don't possess any special talent other than "hard work and careful listening" to every note. I do put in a few tricks that I guess I don't need but they are simply fun to fool with.
In real playing, the 5th string rings open longer as does the 1st., at least much of the time so I lengthen them in my tabs...To people that have difficult times, you simply have to discipline yourself out of a problem and try to fix it. Thanks again Laurence and I respect what you say and can also do, very much....Jack
Edited by - Jack Baker on 12/03/2024 13:40:37
quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97quote:
Originally posted by FenderFredquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97quote:
Originally posted by FenderFredquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97Okay,, it works on slower tunes,, it’s that broken chord technique that I mentioned. I just plant all 3 picking fingers right on the strings and quickly “rip” them off in sequence. It took me quite a bit of practice to get the notes evenly spaced when I learned it on guitar years ago.
Hi chuckv97
I gotta say that's a really beautiful arrangement of Danny Boy. It's just a pity your hands are not visible in the video. Do you have TABs for it?
Hi Fred,, the tab is from a Mel Bay book.????
Can you remember which book?
Not off hand,, go to Mel Bay website and look through their bluegrass banjo books,, they give titles if u click on content. Let me know if'n ya can't find it. I got it from an older out of print book from the 1970's.
edit: I forgot,, it's called Londonderry Air in the book. Here's the link https://www.melbay.comhttps//www.melbay.com/Products/93345EB/complete-bluegrass-banjo-method.aspx
dunno what's wrong with that link , so here's the book image:
Thank you much appreciated
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