I feel sheepish asking this question, but after a thorough search I haven’t found a clear answer. So, here goes:
When I read tab, I am confused by the frailing nomenclature. The tab that I am attaching shows two bum-ditties. The first has the frail across all for strings. The second shows the frail across 3/4 strings, omitting the fourth (D) string. I know it seems obvious, but is the second a partial brush of the strings, omitting the low D? Thanks to any who respond. I am from zero knowledge to beginner player of almost moderate proficiency.
It's either that or a typo in the tab.
quote:
Originally posted by TexasbanjoIt's either that or a typo in the tab.
I actually see this all the time. It is in Josh Turnkett's easy version of "Long Journey Home." I've yet to see anyone address this. Thanks for the reply.
Edited by - Spudwheat on 12/01/2024 14:02:31
It's pretty common. Sometimes with two bum ditty brushes in a row like this, the second one will show a brush of only 2 or 3 strings.
I think it's a hint toward "whatever works for you". Don't look at it as "I have to brush 4 strings on this one, and only 3 on the next one".
What if you only brush 2 strings? Or only strings 4 and 3 sometimes, and only 3 and 2 sometimes, and only 2 and 1 sometimes. Oh nooooo, I'm terrible at this! I'm doing it all wrong!
No, you aren't terrible. You aren't doing it wrong. You are just playing banjo. Enjoy.
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Originally posted by Eric AI think it's a hint toward "whatever works for you". Don't look at it as "I have to brush 4 strings on this one, and only 3 on the next one".
What if you only brush 2 strings? Or only strings 4 and 3 sometimes, and only 3 and 2 sometimes, and only 2 and 1 sometimes. Oh nooooo, I'm terrible at this! I'm doing it all wrong!
No, you aren't terrible. You aren't doing it wrong. You are just playing banjo. Enjoy.
Great answer! Thanks! My immediate humorous reply: On your third mistake, they repossess your banjo. ??
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Originally posted by Spudwheatquote:
Originally posted by Eric AI think it's a hint toward "whatever works for you". Don't look at it as "I have to brush 4 strings on this one, and only 3 on the next one".
What if you only brush 2 strings? Or only strings 4 and 3 sometimes, and only 3 and 2 sometimes, and only 2 and 1 sometimes. Oh nooooo, I'm terrible at this! I'm doing it all wrong!
No, you aren't terrible. You aren't doing it wrong. You are just playing banjo. Enjoy.Great answer! Thanks! My immediate humorous reply: On your third mistake, they repossess your banjo.
quote:
Originally posted by Eric AI think it's a hint toward "whatever works for you". Don't look at it as "I have to brush 4 strings on this one, and only 3 on the next one".
What if you only brush 2 strings? Or only strings 4 and 3 sometimes, and only 3 and 2 sometimes, and only 2 and 1 sometimes. Oh nooooo, I'm terrible at this! I'm doing it all wrong!
No, you aren't terrible. You aren't doing it wrong. You are just playing banjo. Enjoy.
Yep, tab is Guidance, not Policy :-)
Hi Spud,
What you're looking at is a 1/4 note (bum) followed by two 1/8th notes. (dit-ty). He is bracketing the bum dit-ty which makes it a little confusing to look at. but in other words, bum ditty bum ditty....Just get that rhythm in your right hand and you're on you way to Clawhammer banjo playing....Jack Baker.
Originally posted by SpudwheatI feel sheepish asking this question, but after a thorough search I haven’t found a clear answer. So, here goes:
When I read tab, I am confused by the frailing nomenclature. The tab that I am attaching shows two bum-ditties. The first has the frail across all for strings. The second shows the frail across 3/4 strings, omitting the fourth (D) string. I know it seems obvious, but is the second a partial brush of the strings, omitting the low D? Thanks to any who respond. I am from zero knowledge to beginner player of almost moderate proficiency.
Edited by - Jack Baker on 12/02/2024 11:45:19
quote:
Originally posted by SpudwheatI feel sheepish asking this question, but after a thorough search I haven’t found a clear answer. So, here goes:
When I read tab, I am confused by the frailing nomenclature. The tab that I am attaching shows two bum-ditties. The first has the frail across all for strings. The second shows the frail across 3/4 strings, omitting the fourth (D) string. I know it seems obvious, but is the second a partial brush of the strings, omitting the low D? Thanks to any who respond. I am from zero knowledge to beginner player of almost moderate proficiency.
TAB is literal instructions; so yes shows the second is a partial brush, omitting the low D.
I think the idea for beginners, is to follow the TAB instructions, and what it is trying to teach you. Some are simply meant for an exercise to develop RH control, as there are times that you want to do use partial brush; sometimes, for example, just to help emphasize an alternating 2 beat feel.
While you can certainly ignore any part of TAB and just use your ear, play it how you want; might miss what the TAB/lesson is trying to teach? Perhaps question then why use TAB at all?
Ha! Why use Tab indeed. Every famous teacher uses or used Tab. Bill Keith, Bela Fleck, Noam Pikelney etc. etc. etc. So think about what you're asking people to question using tab. Did you ever read a book in College or read notes in music? Ha, same thing. Tell me you've never used a tab. HA, don't get mad at me, I'm just fussing with you...Jack p.s. the funniest thing is I never used tab in my early banjo learning days. But it took me sometimes, a month to get one measure by ear or longer to get a difficult lick down....
I teach every day and many of my students are helpless in the beginning, of learning banjo by ear. Yes, I do try to get them to memorize as soon as possible but I don't know of any modern teacher who doesn't use some tab....Rock On!
Edited by - Jack Baker on 12/02/2024 12:33:27
Tab is literal instruction to how one person has tabbed it out based on how they play or how they hear another player play it. It's not The Single and Definitive version of any tune. I use tab to get the melody and 'understand' for want of a better term, the arrangement. If I really like the arrangement I will stick close to the tab, but mostly use it as guid to play the song in a way I enjoy, ie not sticking slavishly to the tab but going my own way especially with the 'decorative' notes. I found this a good method when starting out as I got the melody and at least some decoration, but didn't get too hung up on missing this or that from the tab, or playing pinches instead or hammer-ons because I found it easier.
quote:
Originally posted by Jack BakerHa! Why use Tab indeed. Every famous teacher uses or used Tab. Bill Keith, Bela Fleck, Noam Pikelney etc. etc. etc. So think about what you're asking people to question using tab. Did you ever read a book in College or read notes in music? Ha, same thing. Tell me you've never used a tab. HA, don't get mad at me, I'm just fussing with you...Jack p.s. the funniest thing is I never used tab in my early banjo learning days. But it took me sometimes, a month to get one measure by ear or longer to get a difficult lick down....
I teach every day and many of my students are helpless in the beginning, of learning banjo by ear. Yes, I do try to get them to memorize as soon as possible but I don't know of any modern teacher who doesn't use some tab....Rock On!
Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. While I am a true beginner, I am making progress. I do focus on memorizing the tab as soon as possible, it frees me up from look,look,look and more listening. I like tab because my knowledge of all music is rudimentary. Tab helps break it down. It is a magnificent journey.
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Originally posted by JSB88Tab is literal instruction to how one person has tabbed it out based on how they play or how they hear another player play it. It's not The Single and Definitive version of any tune. I use tab to get the melody and 'understand' for want of a better term, the arrangement. If I really like the arrangement I will stick close to the tab, but mostly use it as guid to play the song in a way I enjoy, ie not sticking slavishly to the tab but going my own way especially with the 'decorative' notes. I found this a good method when starting out as I got the melody and at least some decoration, but didn't get too hung up on missing this or that from the tab, or playing pinches instead or hammer-ons because I found it easier.
I agree. This is a person's interpretation. I see many different songs recorded with many interpretations. Your advice is excellent. Since the song has to have a similar sound to all other versions to be recognizable, sticking with the melody and personalizing it makes it fun. I say, a missed note... Keep playing. Don't be a total hostage to the Tab. Thanks for your input.
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Originally posted by Jack BakerHa! Why use Tab indeed. Every famous teacher uses or used Tab. Bill Keith, Bela Fleck, Noam Pikelney etc. etc. etc. So think about what you're asking people to question using tab. Did you ever read a book in College or read notes in music? Ha, same thing. Tell me you've never used a tab. HA, don't get mad at me, I'm just fussing with you...Jack p.s. the funniest thing is I never used tab in my early banjo learning days. But it took me sometimes, a month to get one measure by ear or longer to get a difficult lick down....
I teach every day and many of my students are helpless in the beginning, of learning banjo by ear. Yes, I do try to get them to memorize as soon as possible but I don't know of any modern teacher who doesn't use some tab....Rock On!
Wasn't trying to denigrate TAB or notation, get into that issue.
Just thought curious, how would work, if you gave your student a lesson/exercises, using TAB/notation of what to work on; but then student decided to ignore that, not going to follow those instructions? If they can use ear, their own idea whatever they want to sound good... why do they need your TAB?
So think about what you're asking people to question using tab. Did you ever read a book in College or read notes in music?
Not saying not to start with TAB/notation... but would question if that is a good fit; and maybe consider alternative methods; different pros/cons... and related to goals.
Did you ever read a book in College or read notes in music? Ha, same thing. Tell me you've never used a tab.
Since asked, myself, never used tab. Like many others I have played with over 50 years; come from a different, more traditional folk process background, which didn't really start out reading nor book in college, nor notes in music; (wasn't even much of an option); rather involved focusing on using and developing other skills and concepts. Just a different method, process which seems to suit many in their goals just fine. Myself, I did later teach myself to read and write notation, but after had some experience in playing.
When I teach music, various different instruments; I am not adamant, anti-notation; but I mostly lean to start with and focus more traditional qualitative, ear and concept based foundation and process; (vs based on just quantitative reading and rote memorization). Again, just a different method, process which benefits seems to suit most students and their goals.
FWIW, I learned a lot of skills and concepts without prerequisite need of reading a book in college.
This is my curmudgeonly take on this (so be forewarned). First, that way of writing tabs (original post) was common back before people had access to easy tab software (such as tabledit). I'm attaching a *.pdf of a tab that has a few "bum-dittys" (I prefer "quarter-eighth-eighth" or "q-e-e" for short) . Second, (and to the point of the original post), does it matter whether the fourth string is struck along with the first three strings? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. In the q-e-e at the first half of the 2nd measure of the attached tab the brush is on a partial C chord. If you brush across the 4th string without fretting at the second fret, it will sound muddy. All the rest of the brushes are with open G chords, so it does not matter whether or not you strike the fourth string. Third, yes tabs are just a tool. I've attached an *.mp3 of how I actually play the tune for which I've written the attached tab.
Edited by - LyleK on 12/03/2024 19:14:29
quote:
Originally posted by banjoakquote:
Originally posted by Jack BakerHa! Why use Tab indeed. Every famous teacher uses or used Tab. Bill Keith, Bela Fleck, Noam Pikelney etc. etc. etc. So think about what you're asking people to question using tab. Did you ever read a book in College or read notes in music? Ha, same thing. Tell me you've never used a tab. HA, don't get mad at me, I'm just fussing with you...Jack p.s. the funniest thing is I never used tab in my early banjo learning days. But it took me sometimes, a month to get one measure by ear or longer to get a difficult lick down....
I teach every day and many of my students are helpless in the beginning, of learning banjo by ear. Yes, I do try to get them to memorize as soon as possible but I don't know of any modern teacher who doesn't use some tab....Rock On!
Wasn't trying to denigrate TAB or notation, get into that issue.
Just thought curious, how would work, if you gave your student a lesson/exercises, using TAB/notation of what to work on; but then student decided to ignore that, not going to follow those instructions? If they can use ear, their own idea whatever they want to sound good... why do they need your TAB?
So think about what you're asking people to question using tab. Did you ever read a book in College or read notes in music?
Not saying not to start with TAB/notation... but would question if that is a good fit; and maybe consider alternative methods; different pros/cons... and related to goals.
Did you ever read a book in College or read notes in music? Ha, same thing. Tell me you've never used a tab.
Since asked, myself, never used tab. Like many others I have played with over 50 years; come from a different, more traditional folk process background, which didn't really start out reading nor book in college, nor notes in music; (wasn't even much of an option); rather involved focusing on using and developing other skills and concepts. Just a different method, process which seems to suit many in their goals just fine. Myself, I did later teach myself to read and write notation, but after had some experience in playing.
When I teach music, various different instruments; I am not adamant, anti-notation; but I mostly lean to start with and focus more traditional qualitative, ear and concept based foundation and process; (vs based on just quantitative reading and rote memorization). Again, just a different method, process which benefits seems to suit most students and their goals.
FWIW, I learned a lot of skills and concepts without prerequisite need of reading a book in college.
Interesting. I think if I had to learn this instrument by ear, it would take forever to make progress. I am (was) a true beginner, without **any** knowledge of stringed instruments. The first time I was exposed to Tab (early on), I looked at it and thought, "I can do THAT. That is just graphing." I am a former math teacher, so the Tab system married very well with my brain. When I memorize a song, I see it as a graph of information. Progress is directly linked to the will to do better, not flexing on form (no laziness), and practice. When I tune the fourth string to play a different song that I practice, I try to tune it by ear. Then I check it with the tuner. Sometimes I am spot on, sometimes not. I just feel lucky to catch the "off tune" sound in a song when I hit the wrong string/chord... I have no illusions of grandeur on this, as at my age I don't think there is enough time left to be a professional. By the time that might come about, I'll be too tired to carry the banjo around. Thanks for your input. ;-)
quote:
Originally posted by LyleKThis is my curmudgeonly take on this (so be forewarned). First, that way of writing tabs (original post) was common back before people had access to easy tab software (such as tabledit). I'm attaching a *.pdf of a tab that has a few "bum-dittys" (I prefer "quarter-eighth-eighth" or "q-e-e" for short) . Second, (and to the point of the original post), does it matter whether the fourth string is struck along with the first three strings? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. In the q-e-e at the first half of the 2nd measure of the attached tab the brush is on a partial C chord. If you brush across the 4th string without fretting at the second fret, it will sound muddy. All the rest of the brushes are with open G chords, so it does not matter whether or not you strike the fourth string. Third, yes tabs are just a tool. I've attached an *.mp3 of how I actually play the tune for which I've written the attached tab.
You're going to have to try harder to be a curmudgeon. Your .mp3 was excellent. I will continue to work on form so that one day, I will be able to play respectably. I continue to practice, never feel defeated. I appreciate your answer. Thanks.
Well,
Tab is not for you. I never force my students to do anything they just ask for tab, they beg for accurate tabs. You were extra talented and didn't need it or books...No problem...be well....Jack .You have found your answer and believe it's right and that is more than most...Jack p.s. I am a little confused though in that you did eventually learn to read and write music. Brain Slip?
Originally posted by banjoak
Edited by - Jack Baker on 12/09/2024 04:10:22
If you're a beginner, follow the tab assiduously.
If you're more advanced use it for a guideline.
