I was watching a video on a Prucha Diamond Point and it was mentioned how the Prucha has a "modern sound" as opposed to the Gibson Mastertone sound. I am curious if this tonal difference is in set-up, tone ring or is it something else? Asking another way, can a Mastertone clone be made to sound like a Prucha and vice versa?
Here is what they say based on an assessment from Bill Evans:
"Prucha offers vintage-style banjos as well as models that incorporate innovative contemporary elements. Peghead Nation banjo instructor Bill Evans often uses his Prucha Diamond Point Mahogany banjo, which he demonstrates in this video, in his trio with guitarist Dan Crary and bassist Steve Spurgin. “It’s an alternative to the Gibson flathead Mastertone sound,” he says. “It’s definitely a mellower instrument, with a setup that’s geared toward a contemporary player who might play a lot of single-string and melodic-style banjo.”
While the Diamond Point Mahogany may not depart from tradition at first glance, it is a thoroughly modern design. Most significantly, the Diamond Point has a slightly wider neck (about 1.3 inches), and the fretboard has an 11-inch radius, rather than the flat playing surface found on most vintage banjo designs. The instrument is available with several types of metal plating; Bill’s banjo has a special natural lacquer finish on its copper parts."
It's setup. Probably the hallmark of the "modern sound" is Bela Fleck. And as everyone knows, he plays a pre-war Gibson. It's setup. Traditional bluegrass departed from prewar with the neck tilt and 5/8 and .656 bridges. But alot of players now like the wider radiused necks as well (like Bela's) and the highest bridges we have ever seen. Nechville has done very well in that space. It's a nice option to have, but you can get most of the sound from a banjo with Gibson parts and different setup. How much difference the neck makes is a matter of opinion. Bela even claims that the weight of the tuners has a real effect. I'm not in a position to argue with him.
Edited by - Brian Murphy on 11/14/2024 05:17:52
When every builder is selling the same instrument, they've gotta get creative to attract customers.
Brian hit the nail on the head. The "modern sound" for a "contemporary player who might play a lot of single-string and melodic-style banjo."? You mean like Noam Pikelny or Bela Fleck who both play Prewar Gibsons? Is that the modern sound we're talking about?
They talk about mellow tone. But the specific design nuanced noted, wider radius fretboard and special lacquer, don't affect tone at all. It's still a OPF 20-hole flathead on an 11" maple rim, and I'd wager that if someone inspects their Prucha resonator it's built to match a prewar resonator.
I've personally played a Diamond Point on a few occasions, my buddy has one. Quite possibly the best banjo I've ever played and that includes a couple prewars. Nonetheless, it's still just a masterclone and there's no point in denying it.
Edited by - KCJones on 11/14/2024 05:39:47
I ask no agreement here-
With the masterclone main parts--It would be 99% the set-up--and right hand positioning --the link even mentions set-up--I don't see a radius neck changing tone but can't say for sure since I have not tried one--soft vs hard resonators are different -- but nothing modern on that--bridges -- tailpieces--heads--string gauge-are a lot of the options imo
I do agree that for me --melodic style begs for a quieter open first string-- it is an an ongoing research
Edited by - Tractor1 on 11/14/2024 06:06:37
I used to read on here that Deerings had a modern sound, different from the traditional Gibson sound, but all the ones I've heard in person just sound like banjos to me.
quote:
Originally posted by earlstanleycroweI used to read on here that Deerings had a modern sound, different from the traditional Gibson sound, but all the ones I've heard in person just sound like banjos to me.
At nearly 74, with Tinnitus after a lifetime in construction and holding a fiddle next to my ear for hours and hours every week during my prime subtlety of tone, and sound are wasted on me.
quote:
Originally posted by Tractor1I ask no agreement here-
With the masterclone main parts--It would be 99% the set-up--and right hand positioning --the link even mentions set-up--I don't see a radius neck changing tone but can't say for sure since I have not tried one--soft vs hard resonators are different -- but nothing modern on that--bridges -- tailpieces--heads--string gauge-are a lot of the options imo
I do agree that for me --melodic style begs for a quieter open first string-- it is an an ongoing research
What are "soft" and "hard" resonators?
With setups you can achieve a lot of different sounds/tones.
Having said that, a did a setup on a Prucha some years ago and try as I might, I couldn't get it to sound bright/crispy > various head tensions and a bunch of different design bridges. It pretty much kept its "quieter" character. No, not muffled or muddy, just, well, "modest/quieter" but still "flat top" so there would have to be something about its part.
on the resonators --it has been said the poplar lining on the "soft ones" is the cause--I personally went to a poplar lined one on my masterclone build--because the one I had without it over emphasized a'' hardness''in the punch--however when I built my baritone I used the hard one and it done fine with it-
rims and rings can change voicing for sure--but nothing that falls into ''either or"of modernazation
my opinion I ask no agreement
PS the new "to me"catch term for the media is --forward thinking,
The first bluegrass banjos made in some numbers that offered a distinct “modern sound” were the Odes. And they were popular indeed.
To me, the modern sound is more mellow with more sustain. The older Gibson sound is punchier and more dry. This may or may not be correct, but I like mine in between.
@lightgauge - "the modern sound is more mellow with more sustain."
I pretty much agree but would change "more mellow" to "smoother."
There is a sharp edge to the pre-war Gibson, probably due to the lesser sustain.
Hearing is weird. Some folks claims the sine wave of analog recordings sounds smoother than the 01010101's of a digital recording. They might be right, since we hear in analog. But I can't hear it.
I don't think my dog can either.
My gut and experience tells me 99% of a banjos tone is the set up - AND- the player. With the majority of 99% of tone coming from the player and set up being the second most important factor.
Parts, the actual instrument play a minor role. I have heard many a cheap Asian banjo sound amazing with a proper setup in the hands of a world class player, conversely, I have heard more than a few Pre WWII all original flat head Gibson banjos sound terrible due to bad set up and mediocre players.
Then again…it may be just my ears.
mellow is what I try for--since my limited abilities and style call for it--but I don't think that puts a player in a certain file with other players that also -set up towards mellow---Earl Scruggs got pretty well into the modern file without changing his tone--I have been blasted for always playing away from the bridge since the seventies
Like KC said it is a smart selling point--for the young ones beating the bushes--
as far as the analog--I tend to think for variety there is certain magic in -pre digital transistor type signals along with magnetic tape and tube amps
Edited by - Tractor1 on 11/14/2024 18:03:00
To my ear, the best bluegrass banjo I ever played was a top-tension that I don’t know the model of. t was a conversion with a regular-style neck. Its sound was deep, full and powerful from the open strings all the way to the 22d fret. At Gryphon in the mid 1970s. I could have bought it ($3,000), and in retrospect, I should have. Oh well. No doubt the sound was different from even the typical 30s flatheads. I assume that’s one reason the old top-tensions developed their mystique.
