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Nov 11, 2024 - 4:16:14 PM
22 posts since 6/30/2020

I own a Kel Kroydon Standard banjo made by the American Made Banjo Company, which is part of their "affordable series". It has a Robin Smith neck/resonator, and a Kulesh "1990 formula" tone ring. It was only $2000, which is about the price of an imported banjo these days. It seems like the only difference between their "affordable series" and their professional models is a Dannick tone ring.

Considering this, what aspects of a new banjo would constitute a "professional" or "high-end" banjo?

Is there a big difference in the performance of a banjo with a more affordable tone ring (Kulesh, etc.) vs one of the expensive prewar-emulating tone rings?

Is my banjo game not at its full potential if I'm playing a budget-level instrument?

Thanks!

Nov 11, 2024 - 4:36 PM
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5524 posts since 11/20/2004
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Anything beyond what you have is just personal preference in looks, sound, or tone. You have pro quality construction. More expensive may be different, but not necessarily better. We all have our desired sound, so "better" is in the ear of the player.

Nov 11, 2024 - 5:28:05 PM
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KCJones

USA

3296 posts since 8/30/2012

High quality materials. Fine craftsmanship of finish and assembly. Beyond that it's all marketing.

Nov 11, 2024 - 5:30:58 PM
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28311 posts since 6/25/2005

After a certain point, the cost is in decoration and fancier, not more functional, wood.

Nov 11, 2024 - 5:35:22 PM

4940 posts since 10/13/2005

Design, craftsmanship, materials. Then, your oersonal preferences. Just because a banjo is expensive doesn't mean it sounds or plays better for you. It'll sound different but better? Not necessarily. Ditto neck profile/playability. banjered

Nov 11, 2024 - 6:16:38 PM
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15894 posts since 10/30/2008

High end suggests a number of choices made toward the "more expensive" in the construction and decoration of the banjo.

Construction wise, especially compared to an Asian import, the neck heel of a "high end" banjo probably won't have a built up laminated heel like an Asian intermediate. (Same goes for acoustic guitars.)

Often there is less care/time spent on developing a perfect gloss finish on something other than a high end. Even the Asian models sometimes offer satin finish vs. high gloss. High gloss finish takes a lot of time, inspection and rework. Sometimes creates "seconds" which have to be sold at deep discount.

Choice of tuners, tailpieces and other metal is usually from the "more expensive" offerings. The Kulesh tone ring is a fine high end tone ring itself, it was specified by Earl Scruggs for his model banjos starting in the Greg Rich period. The Dannick is a "connoisseurs' " custom tone ring choice. They are expensive! American Made Banjo felt they were really premium and paid a premium to get them. Can the average picker hear the difference? You'd have to try one out to decide. But there is NOTHING second rate about a Kulesh.

Choice of the prettiest most impressive wood adds to cost. High end banjos usually have one piece back veneer on the resonator where many (not all) intermediate imports would use two narrower pieces joined in a center line -- immediately visible when you get one, there's no hiding it. Especially popular with Asian makers. Narrower wood is cheaper than full-width wood, because it has to come from bigger, older trees. Even relatively plain mahogany resonators have grades of beauty and sources. The best mahogany resonator veneer is uniform, NOT "stripey".

AMB did some relatively minor things to make an "affordable" line of banjos. Huber has a similar line known as "Workhorse". The only way you can decide how much (if any) better the "high end" is compared to the "affordable".

I don't think you should have any second thoughts about your "affordable" series Kel Kroyden. If you decide a Dannick tone ring is important, buy one and put it in your banjo!

Relax.

Nov 11, 2024 - 9:57:49 PM
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15842 posts since 6/2/2008

What Dick said. No frills, but no cut corners. 

The AMB Affordable Series, Bishline Cimarron and Deering Sierra were in the $1900 - $2100 range for a brief time when the entry point for other makers' banjos of comparable quality was already $2500 - $2800.

All of these $2000 banjos had three-ply rims, cast bronze alloy tone rings, cast zinc alloy one-piece flanges, well executed finishes and excellent craftsmanship. They achieved their economies in different ways. Some with satin finishes. Simpler inlay. Plain resonator backs. The Sierra's fancy Victorian era inlay was (and still is) acrylic, not pearl. I have no idea how AMB held the line.

You ask if your banjo game is not at its full potential if you're playing a budget-level instrument.  These banjos -- including yours -- lack for nothing.  Your banjo is not keeping you from your full potential.

The Rich Era and later Gibson RB-250 was essentially this same class of no frills professional banjo.  I  think the only measurable difference between it and your AMB Affordable was the retail price.

Nov 12, 2024 - 6:35:23 AM
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3167 posts since 12/4/2009

Hello,

I have a Dannick tone ring with a Ken LeVan custom rim. I like the sound. My wife likes my 2006 Gibson RB12. She says the Gibson sounds better. When ever I play the Dannick, not one person asks what makes your banjo sing.

So, my Gibson from 2006 has a Kulesh ring. I have never been tempted to swap rings.

Nov 12, 2024 - 11:15:07 AM

2900 posts since 1/4/2009

I think a "high end banjo" especially posted here in the collectors corner has a lot more going for it to than what parts are in it.

To me there is a big difference between a professional banjo and a high end banjo.

For example I have a great banjo that it certainly professional level, its a one off or one of few by a viturally unknown luthier. Its got a ryan no hole ring, high end hardware, a sullivan old growth rim and beautiful neck. Its all gold plated and highly decorated. It has a fantastic tone and volume and a joy to play. Is it high end? Nope, i had it for sale and couldnt even get $1200 for it.

My favorite banjo to play is a 1930 tb conversion , done by jim faulkner, with one of his rings and a besutiful neck. Its a killer banjo, but is it high end ? no way.

So whats a high end banjo? In the collector community its something sought after, something rare and is really.. a flathead mastertone five string opf banjo. A high end banjo is worth north of $50,000, probably a lot more. Thats the high end.

My most valuable banjo is around 10k, but can you really call something thats worth 1/10th or even a lot less than that of what other banjos sell for high end? I dont think so.

Nov 13, 2024 - 3:51:12 PM
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banjoez

USA

2838 posts since 7/18/2007

Take it from experience, it's a lot more important to work on your chops rather than chasing the instrument or latest tone ring etc. Once you reach that point then you have the experience to know what sounds best to your ear and then can make a truly informed decision whether or not you need to go "high end".  I wouldn't consider a $2000 banjo low end as long as it's got what you need and can tell the difference.

Edited by - banjoez on 11/13/2024 15:58:04

Nov 13, 2024 - 4:11:31 PM
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1878 posts since 11/10/2022

I consider professional level instruments ones that sound great and can easily put up with 3 shows per week plus practise for a decade or more.

Proper real woods, shaping, hardware and manufacture all make this possible.

Entry level instruments wear out within 2000 hours, necks warp, humidity makes them unplayable etc.

All instruments need proper maintenance to last.

Nov 14, 2024 - 12:58:55 PM
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15842 posts since 6/2/2008

quote:
Originally posted by banjoez
 I wouldn't consider a $2000 banjo low end as long as it's got what you need and can tell the difference.

Especially not a US-made banjo that sold for around $2,000 new 10 or more years ago. 

I repeat myself. Look at what goes into an RB-250. It has everything a professional banjo should have.  Then see how other banjos either achieve economies compared to that or include add-ons that increase cost.

A classified ad for a used Deering Rustic Wreath that the seller just dropped to $2,000 reminds me of one of the other minor ways Deering kept down the production cost on the Sierra: unbound fretboard. Saves a lot of shop time (manual task that can't be automated).

Nov 21, 2024 - 6:41:18 AM

9 posts since 9/15/2011

I have done a little searching and can't fine American Made Banjo nor Kel Kroyden on the internet anymore, I used to buy strings from AMB and recently I went to buy more and the website is gone. Also as they seemed to be the only ones keeping the Kel Kroyden line alive is Kel Kroyden a thing of the past?

Just wondering, I live about 1.5 hours east of where I believe the KK banjos were made (if my memory serves) and thought one day I would stop by but guess they are gone.

Any info appreciated!

Nov 21, 2024 - 6:54:16 AM

22 posts since 6/30/2020

They still have a website and still sell heads and strings and clearance of the parts that were once used on the banjos.

americanmadebanjo.com/

They don't make banjos anymore though, I think mostly because their builder Robin Smith died.

Nov 21, 2024 - 7:30:18 AM
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9 posts since 9/15/2011

Don't know how I missed that, I must have fat-fingered the address when I tried or maybe the site was temp unavailable then. Thanks!

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