I simply hunted for tabs of tunes that had caught my ear.
I remember struggling at first with the thumb and finger on the 3rd string in Salt Creek,but after 2-3 weeks it started to get more comfortable.

People have suggested I learn Nola and Humoresque and I never have It's not because they're too difficult...it's just because I'm not interested in learning them.Not drawn to their melodies like I am with certain fiddle tunes.

Once you get comfortable with hearing chords and playing to the chord things get simpler.

I never had a teacher so I never had someone tell me I have to walk before I can run. I would just jump in with the hardest material I could find. Sure, I failed at it but I learned so much faster that way. And I never picked up any bad habits because if something wasn’t working for me I changed it before it became a habit.
This approach is not for everyone, just saying that the learning path is a very personal thing. It’s hard to generalize.

It's no big deal to fail at something and move on.

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Originally posted by steve davis

It's no big deal to fail at something and move on.

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Right. Then you come back to it 3 months later and find it's way easier than you thought the first time.

Everyone learns differently so there is no straight rule for everyone on the path to success. It is important to know what works best for you. But some learners have the determination, high motivation and especially the patience to meet and overcome the challenge before them to reach the lofty goals they set. I would speculate that just about every great 1st and 2nd generation banjo player started by learning Scruggs tunes, determined to learn note for note from records or watching live performances (probably both). Nobody said to them "don't try to play just like Scruggs because he is the best in the world". If they did, it seems that few listened.

In our search for betterment we may learn that our goals aren't necessarily the path we thought were most important.

In my beginner to advanced journey in both guitar 25 years ago and banjo 2 years ago, I had certain songs that brought me to the table. I already knew music theory so practise practise practise until I could play them. Guitar was harder because I had to figure out pedal FX and settings in addition to picking for my song choices.

In both cases after learning 6 or so songs I always wanted to play, i went back and took beginner instruction. The instruction went a lot easier than had I began there. I think if I was forced to beginner instruction without playing songs I needed to learn, Id not still be playing.

I tried tablature because I couldn't figure out how the picking was done by just listening to records.

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Originally posted by steve davis

I tried tablature because I couldn't figure out how the picking was done by just listening to records.

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That's why I took lessons. Except I didn't even have any records. I would listen to some owned by a bandmate, but everything went by too fast and I wasn't going to ask him to subject his records and stereo to phrase-by-phrase slow down.

I imitated what I heard the best I could in a made-up two-finger style. One lesson ended that.

I think the most important thing is that the result of the practice is something that motivates the student to keep practicing. When I learned classical guitar as a teenager, I was bored to death with a lot of the material I was supposed to learn. I learned a lot faster when my guitar teacher asked me what sort of music I was interested in and selected something suitable. If a person finds it more motivating to play a difficult piece badly (but does perceive the shortcomings) than a dull but simple piece perfectly, why not.

quote:

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Originally posted by steve davis

 

I'm for trying anything under the sun at any time.
You may find out that it isn't working out,but you may discover little bits and pieces that set you off on another tangent that you didn't expect.

You might also find out that you are better than you thought.

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I agree Steve! A constant portion of meat & potatoes while practicing the basics, although necessary, sometimes gets monotonous.  Try sampling the "sardines" once in awhile.  It makes the journey all the more satisfying.  #dabblealittle

Easy pieces are not really as easy as they seem. I can enjoy practicing them a lot after I can consistently hit the notes, which is when the fun really begins. I work hard on tone, dynamics, accents, note duration, articulation and little by little speed. Of course I try harder tunes too, but I do not spend hours and hours trying to get them perfect because it will not happen at this point in my banjo career. I can really only get the musicality right on easier pieces

Trying to learn and judge your banjo playing as an individual is a thankless task. The world of banjo at least where I a have lived in the US and traces of it I have experienced beyond whether you are talking about old time,bluegrass, or other banjo is a friendly world where some of the most excellent banjo maestros who have struggled all their lives as well as the great pickers at the old time or bluegrass jam, and everything in between are DOWN RIGHT FRIENDLY.

Dont judge yourself. Get to know other banjo players, and if possible FIND A TEACHER OR MENTOR OF THE STYLE OF BANJO THAT YOU AIM TO PLAY and go to work learning the banjo in the style that you desire. I had been playing guitar since I was 12 and gotten pretty good at folk, old time, and bluegrass styles before I decided to play the banjo in my early 50s (77 now) even though I realize I had all the ignorant ideas that a beginner has made worse by thinking I knew about it as a guitarist for decades, the local banjoists where I live were so friendly and positive, but at the same time pointing out how stupid many of my non banjo player ideas about playing old time frailing and 2 finger were.

Find other banjo players. Find a teacher in the style that you wish to play in, work at it, and listen to people who tell you.l

I always think back to a web site that used to be up about Earl Scruggs. Earl was inspired to play the banjo because his father who passed away when Earl was 8 played the banjo. Earl and his brother and sister worked hard and serious at learning picking in tribute to their father. As youngsters around 10-12 two of them would work on playing a tune, and when they really thought they had it, the would stand back to back and start together and walk around their house each going in the opposite direction while playing their instrument with the aim that their time would be so right that they would each be on the same NOTE when they passed each other.

That is the kind of work some people do. It takes a whole lot of work to play the banjo as well as some of the top banjoists do, or even as your average bluegrass or old time player plays.

I studied writing fiction and teaching people how to write fiction and poetry and have an MFA in creative writing.. In the many years I did undergraduate and graduate work in that world, which included knowing writers who would go on to win Oscars for their screen plays, and have successful novels, and write prize-winning poetry, both in school and in the little writers get togethers and exchanges we had, I never heard anyone talk about creativity. I heard people talk about how hard they worked, how hard they studied the writings of the writers they admired, how they tried to analyze what books or stories or poems they liked worked to get learn the craft.

The ones who actually got somewhere either in careers as poets, novelists, or screen writers, were the ones who worked the hardest and were the most critical of their own work. We had a slogan, it is not the inspiration but the perspiration.

When I see a great master banjo player in any genre, I see someone who worked her or his tail off, very frequently I see someone who had the benefit of a very good teacher or series fo teachers or mentors. I usually would see a person who was not always concernede with how good she or he was, but with what can they learn, what can this or that local player teach them, and I usually someone who would put in the hours practicing and picking, when someone like me is typing on banjo hangout LOL

I think some beginnners, myself included have no interest in playing with others in jamming or learning to play in a group. I know my goal is to be able to play popular songs I know-mostly Christmas music in popular tunes-by myself around the campfire without any concern for skill level or sounding like an advanced musician or developing further. I’d be completely content to spend years or more on one song from tablature and never attend a single jam or try to play with others or play by ear. I’ve learned this isn’t popular with most banjo players but it’s definitely what I enjoy.

I do have a teacher now and I think she understands this and has helped me a lot.

I liken it to running: some people are very interested in getting very good at the sport and others just want to jog the occasional 5 k and finish in 30 minutes or so and they don’t mind buying good shoes to do it, never getting better and having little interest in winning races.

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Originally posted by FenderFred

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Originally posted by chuckv97

I know I did and paid the price,, I had to do the necessary work of learning easier tunes starting at a very slow tempo to get my timing and tone right. Even if one plays all the correct notes but isn’t experienced enough on banjo, the tune comes off sounding lifeless. Just my opinion.

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At what point would you suggest a beginner move on. One could be stuck in a beginner label for a lifetime too frightened to step up. I am a firm believer that once a beginner understands the fundamentals they should begin taking on new challenges. Learning the Geography of the Fretboard, Partial Chords, Intermediate and Advance licks, inside rolls and such. 

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Hah! Sounds similar to inexperienced horse riders and their big-price steeds, but the banjo doesn't suffer as much...
I am a fairly beginner player and play on my own for the joy of the unique sound. I do play basic stuff, but love tackling more ridiculously different tunes on my own (albeit painfully slowly) for the fascinating, unfolding progressions — the intense, total focus required with a complicated tab puts me into a similar, magical mind frame as when I used to ride young horses: You have to be wholly present as it can all go horribly wrong if your concentration slips...

Well that rings true with me. We all seem to try to force progress when the level we're tackling is just too much too soon. You can get those harder tunes, in a year or two or who knows, but something seems to click that tells you you can re-visit that harder tune and nail it. So never get frustrated - just put it on the shelf for a while and play the stuff you're confident to do.

clams, fudges & dead notes!  tdennis. I know I am still a beginner because I don't even know what a clam or a fudge is... pretty sure I've got the dead notes down though.  You are so right about the steps of the process and what separates the pros from the amateurs.  I won't ever play like my banjo heros but fun is what I'm having. quote:

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Originally posted by tdennis

CVW, You have brought up a very interesting topic. There are several steps to learning/performing a song; there are the early struggles to learn the basics, then one finally has the intro, middle & outro down, but the playing is stiff & mechanical w/ some clams, fudges & dead notes. The next step is a long period of making it flow in a natural, interesting & emotionally moving final performance.
These differences are probably what separates amateurs from professionals.
I think the best part of the BHO is the many amateurs & hobbyists who upload songs in the premature stage.  

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quote: Eulalie, I think you are a very wise teacher to create a simplified version of more complicated tunes.  It was hearing fantastic clawhammer playing by professionals playing great tunes, that inspired me to start playing banjo.  Cluck old hen is not inspiring for me.  I'd rather struggle with a difficult tune until I get come up with an easier version I can play.  

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Originally posted by Eulalie

I put that composition degree to good use and with little trouble create a simplified version of more complicated tunes for beginning students. I then gradually introduce technical bits that slowly guide the player towards the more fleshed out version. It works, and it helps with students' self esteem.

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Evans: "Easy pieces are not really as easy as they seem."

BINGO!!! Give that man a see-gar!!   

For some [i.e. those 'way over at the left end of the music spectrum] ,  "basic / rudimentary / elementary / fundamental / etc. " and "easy" are NOT interchangeable terms.  [IMNSHumbleO   ]

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Originally posted by Banjosnob

quote:

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Originally posted by steve davis

 

I'm for trying anything under the sun at any time.
You may find out that it isn't working out,but you may discover little bits and pieces that set you off on another tangent that you didn't expect.

You might also find out that you are better than you thought.

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I agree Steve! A constant portion of meat & potatoes while practicing the basics, although necessary, sometimes gets monotonous.  Try sampling the "sardines" once in awhile.  It makes the journey all the more satisfying.  #dabblealittle

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One doesn't see a good sardine reference every day,Lynn.

learning the basics and the foundations of the music, especially the scales, the rolls, and the variations and anything that has to do with advancing your time and speed and making it more solid is the basis of a firm foundation of playing better, and stronger and tackling more difficult tunes.

A player has to decide whether she or wishes to learn to play the banjo well, and build a foundation to advance,  or whether the player wants to be impressive or feel impressed.  

Being good and impressive and not boring comes from having a foundation, both a technical foundation in how fast or rhythmic and intricately you can make notes, how much you understand and integrate the musical system that different improvisions involve,   and how solid your foundation is.  

Musicians I know who are professionals in Jazz or CW or bluegrass,  spend what most parking lot pickers and weekly jammers would consider excessive amounts of time doing very "boring" practicingand learning of things like scales and rolls and experimenting with different voicings for chords, and learning riffs and arpeggios etc. etc.  

the issue is do you want to put the time and work in it

Again, working as an individual even with the wealth of online and book information about playing is ok, but finding a teacher, a player who plays at the level that you aspire to play at and has experience going through the work to learn  can really help and is really worth the money.   It is also easier t do nowadays insofar as lessons are offered by both professionals and for me friends, on Zoom, so it is not an issue of whoo is in your area

Again,  it is not the inspiration but the perspiration!

quote:

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Originally posted by writerrad

excessive amounts of time doing very "boring" practicingand learning of things like scales and rolls and experimenting with different voicings for chords, and learning riffs and arpeggios etc. etc.  

the issue is do you want to put the time and work in it

 

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I think you'll find there are more than a small percentage of beginners who love this.  It's my favorite part of the day, often to sit and do hundreds of repeats of the same five or six notes.

sadly what I hate doing is playing with a group, listening to music and playing by ear.   It gives me anxiety to even imagine trying to learn all the strange unwritten rules of group jamming and trying to pick it up by just hanging around.   I've found it's both coarse and unforgiving among the experts.

i think there are many many guitar and banjo players interested in being able to play a small repertoire of songs by themselves with family and no accompaniment as though they are playing Christmas songs on a piano.   Using the running analogy again, getting really good at running would be like a 5k hobby jogger imagining they want to step onto the track at the Olympics; they're not wanting to do that and not even imagining that.   The YouTube videos are just a way to share what they've been working on.

A good piece of tab can lead you through very difficult stuff right off the bat.
Internalizing the material and making it your own is the challenge.

quote:

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Originally posted by writerrad

learning the basics and the foundations of the music, especially the scales, the rolls, and the variations and anything that has to do with advancing your time and speed and making it more solid is the basis of a firm foundation of playing better, and stronger and tackling more difficult tunes.

A player has to decide whether she or wishes to learn to play the banjo well, and build a foundation to advance,  or whether the player wants to be impressive or feel impressed.  

Being good and impressive and not boring comes from having a foundation, both a technical foundation in how fast or rhythmic and intricately you can make notes, how much you understand and integrate the musical system that different improvisions involve,   and how solid your foundation is.  

Musicians I know who are professionals in Jazz or CW or bluegrass,  spend what most parking lot pickers and weekly jammers would consider excessive amounts of time doing very "boring" practicingand learning of things like scales and rolls and experimenting with different voicings for chords, and learning riffs and arpeggios etc. etc.  

the issue is do you want to put the time and work in it

Again, working as an individual even with the wealth of online and book information about playing is ok, but finding a teacher, a player who plays at the level that you aspire to play at and has experience going through the work to learn  can really help and is really worth the money.   It is also easier t do nowadays insofar as lessons are offered by both professionals and for me friends, on Zoom, so it is not an issue of whoo is in your area

Again,  it is not the inspiration but the perspiration!

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My next lesson is usually the next tune.