After a hurricane, a guy in an unaffected state goes to Lowes and buys generators, tarps, and chainsaws, drives ten hours, sells them out of the back of the truck for twice what he paid for them. Is he:
A. a criminal who should be punished?
B. a welcome provider of needed supplies who deserves his profit?
C. or ??????
your comments invited.
Was the delivery..free..?
Might be more than what the Feds... Are dooin... :0/
quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-eAfter a hurricane, a guy in an unaffected state goes to Lowes and buys generators, tarps, and chainsaws, drives ten hours, sells them out of the back of the truck for twice what he paid for them. Is he:
A. a criminal who should be punished?
B. a welcome provider of needed supplies who deserves his profit?
C. or ??????
your comments invited.
It depends where one's heart is - as a strictly commercial enterprise or as a Good Samaritan. I'll let his/her conscience decide. Personally I've been second-guessing my recent video and other posts re Kris Kristofferson and his passing. I sometimes feel I'm profiting from someone's death. argh....
But would you buy a chain saw from him? And if you really, really needed that chain saw, would you curse him for profiteering or thank him for being there?
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Originally posted by banjo bill-eBut would you buy a chain saw from him? And if you really, really needed that chain saw, would you curse him for profiteering or thank him for being there?
Not being in that circumstance, I don't know. I'd be grateful for the item I needed but wouldn't exactly hold the supplier in high regard if he was price gouging, taking advantage of vulnerable people.
More trouble …
m.facebook.com/story.php?story...873932410
What's the cost of petrol/gas for such a journey, I bet the miles per gallon isn't great. How much does he need to sell to cover that cost. Plus the cost of wear and tear. Plus the cost of time and it looks like he should be staying somewhere overnight and probably buying a few meals. How much did he sell, how much did he take. What is the profit overall? What are the expenses? He can be charitable if he wants but perhaps he can't afford to be charitable. Without the spreadsheet I'm not going to judge.
More madness,,
thedailybeast.com/wild-ice-pic...vastation
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Originally posted by GrahamHawkerWhat's the cost of petrol/gas for such a journey, I bet the miles per gallon isn't great. How much does he need to sell to cover that cost. Plus the cost of wear and tear. Plus the cost of time and it looks like he should be staying somewhere overnight and probably buying a few meals. How much did he sell, how much did he take. What is the profit overall? What are the expenses? He can be charitable if he wants but perhaps he can't afford to be charitable. Without the spreadsheet I'm not going to judge.
I have no problem if he's just covering costs and making some profit for his time , but obvious price gouging isn't ok in my books. As to Bill's point, if I was desperate I'd likely pay whatever.
Edited by - chuckv97 on 10/02/2024 11:44:39
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Originally posted by banjo bill-eBut would you buy a chain saw from him? And if you really, really needed that chain saw, would you curse him for profiteering or thank him for being there?
Bill ...... that's really funny (not ha ha funny), but because we have had no power, and trees down everywhere (took a day for me to cut downed trees to get out of my driveway), my wife and I drove to Atlanta to spend a few days with my son's family. Yesterday I went to a local Ace hardware and bought a new Stihl chainsaw ($700) as my old one is about worn out. After leaving the store, which had plenty in stock (really surprising to me that they did), I started thinking about what I would have to charge just to break even if I loaded up my suv with saws and took them back home. I would not take them back and sell them for $1000 each, unless I already had buyers lined up. But I sure would have been willing to have paid someone else $1000 to bring me one to Greenville.
it reminds me of an old knife trading tactic when someone was trying to buy or sell a pocket knife like one you owned exactly like it. You would tell the other person to "give me a price" and "either I will buy yours or you have to sell me yours for that price". It keeps both sides honest ....... or within the range anyway.
I would say there is such thing as gouging, but I would think it would be more in the lines of when a gas station was getting gas for the same price as before a disaster, yet doubling the price when they had not done anything extraordinary to get it nor distribute it.
Let's say the sellers motive is pure profit, he sees an opportunity and exploits that to the best of his ability, maybe doubling his money after all expenses, or even more. Have his actions aided or harmed those in the hurricane path? It is easy to call him despicable, and many have, but those critics did NOT drive ten hours to sell those goods, and without the opportunity for a windfall there would be no chainsaws and generators for those eager customers. So in this case, can "greed" be "good?"
I once bought an all-Vega parts banjo for $175; parted it out for a total of $600. Was I price-gouging? Of course not; that’s a typical, though uncommon, transaction. As to the example posed above, I agree that it depends on costs. If the seller is making more than aobut 10 percent profit under the circumstances, he or she is price-gouging and rather unethical. That said, it’s an illustration of how capitalism works.
I don’t think greed is ever good ,, again, if he’s covering his expenses and time (including 10 hours driving) and makes a 10% profit like Bill R mentioned, I’m ok with it.
The problem with unethical behaviour is that it can influence young people when they see it growing up , leading to more unethical behaviours from them.
A similar situation with gas supplies. Would you prefer to pay $15/gallon at stations along the evacuation route, or be stranded at a station without fuel? Studies show that at regular prices we will soon have shortages in any emergency, as people will tend to top off tanks out of worry, purchasing fuel that they don't really need. But would they still do that at higher prices? Would higher prices mean that only those who truly needed that fuel would pay for it, so more available for those who need it?
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Originally posted by GrahamHawkerWhat's the cost of petrol/gas for such a journey, I bet the miles per gallon isn't great. How much does he need to sell to cover that cost. Plus the cost of wear and tear. Plus the cost of time and it looks like he should be staying somewhere overnight and probably buying a few meals. How much did he sell, how much did he take. What is the profit overall? What are the expenses? He can be charitable if he wants but perhaps he can't afford to be charitable. Without the spreadsheet I'm not going to judge.
That's where i was going with me question...
Thanks Graham...
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Originally posted by banjo bill-eA similar situation with gas supplies. Would you prefer to pay $15/gallon at stations along the evacuation route, or be stranded at a station without fuel? Studies show that at regular prices we will soon have shortages in any emergency, as people will tend to top off tanks out of worry, purchasing fuel that they don't really need. But would they still do that at higher prices? Would higher prices mean that only those who truly needed that fuel would pay for it, so more available for those who need it?
Hmmm... raising prices to lower demand,, interesting reversal on Economics 101
We had a local couple who went to Costco during the pandemic. They cleaned out the shelves on certain items like toilet paper and masks. Somehow they were identified by someone. Their ultimate trial was in the court of public opinion. The verdict was hard and swift. They claim that they were extremely afraid of going without so they went overboard. The concluding remarks from the reporters were anything but kind.
How about grocery stores and their high prices lately?… does anyone know if they’re gouging or are there other reasons?
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Originally posted by chuckv97How about grocery stores and their high prices lately?… does anyone know if they’re gouging or are there other reasons?
Our $ has no value..becose they just keep printing..
Is there a significant diff between gouging and charging what the market will bear? Or is it simply as Bill R. said ^^: "... how capitalism works."?
Bill-e, I'm not sure I understand the question: "Would higher prices mean that only those who truly needed that fuel would pay for it, so more available for those who need it?" i.e. how much does "truly" add to "need"? ... and who makes the assessment? In any event, I suspect that the ability to pay might be a bigger factor than "true need" .... Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt that in emergencies a person that figures (?) he needs something does much analysis comparing his need to that of others.
Edit: We found that on the fly-in reserves the locals were v-e-r-y hesitant to buy stuff when it's "best before" date approached. In one instance we were at the store on a Thursday and there was a shopping cart of 28 oz. tins of canned tomatoes at 25 cents per [probably 2005ish... no gouging]. We bought several, and actually commented about leaving them for others. Well, on Friday, the cart looked untouched, so we bought a few more, again mentioning that others needed the "good deal" more than we did. And whaddaya know??... ditto on Saturday. I don't think we had to buy canned tomatoes again that year. 
Edited by - Owen on 10/02/2024 16:04:02
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Originally posted by STUD figmo Alquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97How about grocery stores and their high prices lately?… does anyone know if they’re gouging or are there other reasons?
Our $ has no value..becose they just keep printing..
I'm probably dense on this subject, but how does printing more money affect prices? Where do those extra greenbacks go?
Everything goes up in trouble-spots.
How much did plywood go up in price locally a week before the hurricane?
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Originally posted by chuckv97quote:
Originally posted by STUD figmo Alquote:
Originally posted by chuckv97How about grocery stores and their high prices lately?… does anyone know if they’re gouging or are there other reasons?
Our $ has no value..becose they just keep printing..
I'm probably dense on this subject, but how does printing more money affect prices? Where do those extra greenbacks go?
It's actually fairly basic economics. Printing more money affects prices because the real value of the goods remains constant, but in an inflationary economy, a fixed item - say, a kilogram of rice - costs more than it did because demand remains the same - or increases - but the unit of money is worth less because there's more of it.
Consider the (comparatively) recent history of Zimbabwe, in which hyperinflation was in play. The citizens wanted nothing more than to pay for food - our kilogram of rice - and could find that the price had doubled, even tripled or more - in several days because the money was worth less each day. And that's because the government kept printing more of it. Look up hyperinflation on Wikipedia to learn more about that. Same rules apply to regular inflation, just less dramatically.
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Originally posted by chuckv97How about grocery stores and their high prices lately?… does anyone know if they’re gouging or are there other reasons?
Other reasons. Grocery store profit margins are incredibly low - check out their profit margins and they're among the least profitable large businesses out there. A grocery store operating at a 3% profit margin is doing really well - and that includes the fact that grocery stores make most of their money not by selling food, but by selling shelf space to major brands.
Meantime, their suppliers are facing increased costs of production, processing, packaging and transportation. These increased costs are passed on to you at the checkout counter.
To the previous question of "price gouging," let me offer this anecdote. Egg costs around here more than doubled during the height of the pandemic. And there were several reasons for that. In addition to the added production and transportation costs, our state had recently enacted animal welfare laws demanding that all eggs sold in the US had to be produced in a "cage free" situation, which is much more expensive from a production standpoint. Suppliers complied, but still had to stay in business. They raised prices. Demand dropped in return, but the higher prices made it possible for the egg producers to stay in business, and for us to continue getting eggs - if we were willing to pay for them. Enough people were.
There's a blog I know of that's well worth following - it's called Marginal Revolution (marginalrevolution.com). It's run by two highly respected economics professors. They consider all manner of things with an economics perspective - and a bunch of things just because they're intriguing. You might find it fun - I know I do!
Since $ was taken off the gold standard it seems like a house of cards to me. I can see why an over abundance of , say, cans of peas means they’ll be worth less per can,, but I can’t get my head around dollar bills doing the same. I’ll go study up…
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Originally posted by chuckv97Since $ was taken off the gold standard it seems like a house of cards to me. I can see why an over abundance of , say, cans of peas means they’ll be worth less per can,, but I can’t get my head around dollar bills doing the same. I’ll go study up…
Well said, brother! We used to barter - a bushel of wheat for your chicken, Neighbor! It worked well small-scale. The concept of money broadens out the goods and services we can buy, and it would be hard to argue that's not advantageous to most of us.
But consider the idea of a dollar bill as a unit of measure. You are absolutely right that gold has an intrinsic value - in fact, the world's economy was set upon it at the Bretton Woods Agreement in 1944, where the value of the US dollar - which became the basis of global trade - was based on the idea that the US dollar was based on the value of gold.
Richard Nixon messed that up in the 1970s when he essentially caused all major world currencies to become free-floating.
Edited by - eagleisland on 10/02/2024 17:48:00
