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Hi all,
How do you all feel about other people asking to play your instrument at jam sessions? A couple examples:
1) I attended a jam session and brought my brand new (and expensive) Martin guitar along with my banjo. My guitar was sitting on its stand while I was playing my banjo. The host of the jam, who I didn’t know very well, asked if he could play my guitar. I (somewhat tentatively) said ok… and he proceeded to take it and start banging away on it for the next several songs… which killed my ability to pick it up and play it had I desired to do so on any of those songs…
2) I have been invited to another “jam” type musical event this coming Saturday evening. The host called me this week to tell me someone else was coming who is a “good guitar player” and the host was asking me if I had a guitar I could bring for this person to use. I have no idea who this person is who will be playing my lesser-expensive Martin cutaway… but still a guitar i dont really want to get beat up. But i said yes, because I really didn’t know what to tell him as… he’s the host…
3) I was at SPBGMA this past January jamming with a few folks in the corner. There was another banjo player there with a unique looking banjo. I commented to him how great his banjo looked.. and he offered to let me try it. I have a Hatfield and asked if he wanted to try mine too. We mutually agreed, exchanged banjos, and after playing a couple songs together, shared mutual appreciate of each others instruments. It was how I feel this kind of things should happen… not like examples 1 & 2 above.
Do y’all let other people just play your instruments whenever they ask? Am I overly concerned with this and maybe overthinking it? I always felt the protocol should be more wait until someone offers you to play their instruments and maybe don’t put them in a difficult spot by asking them.. especially in front of everyone else where they may feel bad if they say “no?”
I reserve the right to be wrong in the way I’m feeling, so… if I’m overthinking this, I’m ok with hearing that.
Thanks!
Steve
One of the quickest ways to loose a friend is to lend them an instrument. I heard lots of stories when I worked in a music store. Returned all scratched up or left in hot cars with new structural problems. And several times, the "friend" pawned the instrument. Friends who cannot afford an instrument are as responsible with their money as they are with someone else's instrument.
With lots of people and instruments at jam sessions I would tend not to take my best instruments. The Asian flattops in the under $300 range are quite decent. The used market is flooded with them, easily bought for $100-$125. And no one will ask you to try it out. And you can feel comfortable lending it. Acceptable banjos are a little more dollars. Or just say no with the explanation that it is "my baby and I baby it."
No and yes are the two most powerful words in the English language. You, for better or worse, are the arbiter of those words. Use them as wisely as you are capable of. What others think of you is their "problem," not yours, short of them coming after you as authoritarians are inclined to do on occasion. banjered
This is probably oversimplifying things, but here’s how I feel and act. If someone asks me a yes or no question, and I say no, and they don’t like it, that’s their problem not mine. No is one of the two valid answers.
So no, I would not lend my instrument to anyone in the first two scenarios. I might in the third scenario. It would depend on how I felt about the other person after being around them during the jam. If they were beating their banjo up I wouldn’t let them beat up mine.
My inclination would be to gently refuse to lend an instrument. I've never had anyone ask to borrow my instruments, but I did lend someone a guiro once. He proceeded to bang the heck out of it, so I retrieved it after one song. If someone is coming to a jam session and can't or doesn't bring his/her own instrument, to me that's already a red flag and the sign of possible trouble down the road.
While most guitars and banjos are fairly sturdily built, getting the neck, the action and the banjo head and bridge adjusted to your particular liking and playing style can be time-consuming and somewhat delicate to accomplish. And it wouldn't take much to get any of those things out of whack. That's why I don't think it's a good idea to lend out an instrument, and why I would also be leery about playing someone else's axe.
So I would go with Benjamin Franklin's advice on this: "Neither a borrower or a lender be." SETH
Generally - absolutely NO!!!…and NO!!!
I once lent a fairly good instrument to a professional musician who needed it for an out of town gig. He never returned, nor did the instrument.
Another time, the person, a somewhat well known singer song-writer had use of a guitar of mine for an extended period. When I lent it to her, even though it was 30 years old, it was near mint. When I got it back 6 months later, it was one step away from looking like Willy Nelson’s guitar. Her response to my shock was - “These things were meant to be played”.
I will on occasion, let someone for a short spell play one of my instruments - If I know them, and know how they play. If they understand what they are holding. If they agree to be responsible. If I am present.
I have zero problem saying no to someone. And zero problem asking for an instrument back. If they give push back, say at a jam in front of other people, I tell them you can play it for as long as you want, just hand me a valid check for X amount of $. Instrument usually handed right back.
I also keep all of my instruments insured. Insurance is cheap, and for good instruments, it would be foolish not to have it just in case someone decides not to listen and go rogue, or any other accident happens.
I realize it doesn't address your situation(s) Steve, but I see mucho diff in "lending" and somebody playing for a few minutes, but so far, people haven't asked to play mine. I doubt I'll ever encounter the former, as for the latter, IF the dude appears to be responsible (?), I expect I'd shrug and say "Sure."
On the other hand, once in a while I've asked a few people to play mine ... for reassurance that it can actually produce banjo music.
[Partial disclosure .... neither of my banjos would qualify as a fine instrument .......... although they're fine for me.]
Definitely not , unless you know them , unless the instrument is a beater & you don't care what happens to it .
Many yrs ago I was at a jam & I let a guy (who was a good singer but didn't know) play my early A model mandolin which was one I saved due to its exceptional tone , & in minutes he scratched the top badly . I couldn't believe it & momentarily think I was in shock ! The A hole didn't apologize & for all I know did it on purpose ?
So,
no letting others play or handle my instruments !
Edited by - heavy5 on 09/19/2024 10:12:53
I would have felt compelled to as well. Especially because it was the host, and they're already graciously accepting you into their home, trusting that you won't trash the place. So I can see how it would feel hard to say no.
Personally, I only play music with my wife, not 'jams'.
When I'm selling instruments, I've got to let people try them.
But I'll take it right out of someone's hands if they're not gentle.
That's just business for me.
In your case, I'd suggest only taking your backup instruments to a jam.
Leave the fine China in the cabinet, so to speak.
Edited by - Bruce Berry Banjos on 09/19/2024 10:26:46
i interpret this question as "can i play it" ...as in, you're right there watching them, vs. "can i borrow it". "Neither a lender nor a borrower be", ...i can't imagine too many scenarios where i'd lend an instrument to someone, but i have done it once or twice. But just like lending a book or a cd...you need to basically accept that it's quite possibly something you'll never see again.
as to "playing it your presence".... i usually also say no, unless i know the person or their reputation. i'd let Bela Fleck play my banjo in a heartbeat, in fact i'd love for him to....but a random stranger? hard NO. this will offend some folks, but so what? They might have the kind of sweat that corrodes metal, dirty hands, or who knows what.... and even if you're watching, things could go horribly wrong quickly. John McEuen let me play his Florentine.....but i handed it back quickly after he told me it was worth about $100K. i now bring a beater banjo to gigs for when people ask this intrusive question....and also as a back-up banjo if a string pops mid set.
You can probably play my banjo if we're hanging out at a jam together. But I'm not likely to let you take it home to borrow it long-term.
Guitar.. it depends. They aren't as tough as banjos, and I'm not the type to play them really hard or scratch up the top with a pick. So I'd be more reluctant in this situation.
I lost a friend over lending him my motorcycle (dirt bike). I had just bought it brand new, and spent 40 hours and lots of cash gearing it up. A friend of mine who was much older and acted like he knew everything dirtbike (and very wealthy), kept asking to ride it the moment he knew I had it. After I rode it twice he showed up at my house just to ride it. I told him it was way more powerful than his and only for experts, he laughed and kept saying "When i was your age I rode a CR500 and won many AMA races" . So i told him he could ride it down my dirt road and back. He basically stole it for 3 hours riding the hell out of it and wrecked it. He then tried to return it with bent frame, broken handlebars and torn plastics without saying a word. It ended up in court after he said "Dirt bikes are meant to be abused" as a response to me insisting he buy me another fully decked out bike like mine.
I have prewar Martin guitars that only me and my son play. Ask away, you wont touch them. No one ever asks to play my Epiphone or ride my beater motorcycles. Its ok to say no if thats your comfort zone.
If I'm at a jam and some banjo picker admires my banjo and asks if he/she can play it, the first thing I'd do is tell him to pull out his shirt and cover his belt buckle or hand him a towel to put between him and my banjo. And the playing it would only be for a little time, not the whole jam, not several songs, and never leave the jam with it.
I would always say no if someone wanted to borrow either my Stelling or my Martin Guitar. I've found people who don't own something, haven't saved up money to pay for it, aren't as careful with it as they would be if they owned it.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I absolutely love hearing other people play my instruments. I also get joy out of sharing the experience of letting people who have not had the opportunity to play a well set up great and rare old Gibson banjo play one for the first time. I feel that if you are lucky enough to own an instrument like that it's only right to share that joy.
I have no problem letting people play one of my instruments if I'm there, but I'd only lend one (and have) to someone that I knew well. There is a certain etiquette about going about playing someone else's instrument that some people have learned and some people haven't (much like jam etiquette ;) .) One of the most important rules is always ask. I remember as a teenager I hadn't learned that and once just picked up someone's banjo to play it. They were very polite about it, but now that I've learned more I feel guilty about that and know that I should have asked.
I think some people do way overthink this and are way over protective of their instruments. I've literally see an older man curse out a teenager for tuning his instrument when he gave it to him. If you think tuning the instrument is going to damage it you probably shouldn't take the instrument out of the house.
Edited by - banjo1930 on 09/19/2024 11:17:07
I'll lend out my banjo, or most anything else I own, if a friend asks. It's just stuff.
I wouldn't give up a friend over $100, or $1000, or more. I've had friends make bigger mistakes than that and forgiven them, and I've done the same and thankfully I have been forgiven by my friends in turn. I value my friendships much more than that. So I'm not worried about if something happens, because friendship cannot be measured in dollars. And chances are it'll be fine anyway, and nothing will happen, so why waste time worrying?
We're all human. We often confuse what's important and what is worthless, often reversing the two entirely. It may upset some here, but your Gibson is indeed truly worthless. Feeling anxiety over losing 'stuff' should prompt introspection and self-reflection.
Edited by - KCJones on 09/19/2024 11:27:17
NO! I tell them that it’s setup just the way I like it and I have a policy that nobody else plays it. Like said above, if they don’t like the answer, too bad. I learned this through my daughter. I bought her a Gibson guitar that she took with her to some kind of party. Her boyfriend laid it on a table and then turned around and knock it to the floor. Broken neck! At least he manned up and paid for it.
quote:
Originally posted by KCJonesI'll lend out my banjo, or most anything else I own, if a friend asks. It's just stuff.
I wouldn't give up a friend over $100, or $1000, or more. I've had friends make bigger mistakes than that and forgiven them, and I've done the same and thankfully I have been forgiven by my friends in turn. I value my friendships much more than that. So I'm not worried about if something happens, because friendship cannot be measured in dollars. And chances are it'll be fine anyway, and nothing will happen, so why waste time worrying?
We're all human. We often confuse what's important and what is worthless, often reversing the two entirely. It may upset some here, but your Gibson is indeed truly worthless. Feeling anxiety over losing 'stuff' should prompt introspection and self-reflection.
I'm on the same page as KCJones with this. I'll pretty much let anyone play anything that I bring to a jam. I'm fine to "trade" banjos with people for a few songs. I have loaned instruments to people for months before but they were things that I wasn't actively playing. I probably wouldn't lend a banjo that I normally play.
The way the questions were put to you in the first two cases would set my teeth on edge, and would NOT result in me handing over one of my instruments.
Now HERE is how I like to hear a question: They watch and listen CLOSELY to my instrument while I am playing it. They ask me some neutral opening question like "now what model/year/etc is that?" like they want to know more about it, and maybe a few words about how they like the looks and sound of it. Maybe "where did you get it?". Conversational stuff expressing their knowledge and questions about the instrument. If you're getting a good vibe, YOU ask them "do you play? would you like to try it" "got your picks?" and get them to sit down calmly and play a little. If they're sloppy or too rough or anything you don't like, ask 'em to ease off, or even take the instrument back. NEVER lend your banjo picks to such an onlooker!
I learned very early, in my mid-teens, the hazards of lending to even a professional musician. My dad was very proud of his brand new Martin D-35 guitar. We were making an appearance on a local live tv show playing a little bluegrass. The host was a VERY senior regional cowboy singer/yodeler/guitarist playing an ancient Gibson J-185 that he babied. He asked my dad "could I try your guitar out on my next song?" He didn't know my dad from Adam. Dad of course said "sure!" The yodeling star went out to do his song and absolutely thrashed my dad's brand new guitar and put side to side pick scrapes in the top. When he handed it back my dad was stunned. He was angry about that for the next 25 years too!
On the other hand, so far I've never been disappointed by anyone trying out one of MY instruments -- but I've always known such people very well. I am VERY cautious about strangers and size them up carefully. Well, I was moderately disappointed by a close friend once, who I happily handed my newly found 1963 Martin 00-21 guitar. We were all jamming around a kitchen table. My friend loved the little guitar which pleased me no end. Until he stood up directly under the ceiling fan and stuck the guitar peghead into the fan blades... Thankfully just a ding in the peghead, nothing broken. He was mighty embarrassed. I almost had a heart attack.
If your instrument goes into somebody else's hands, keep a doubly close watch on what happens!
There is NO WAY I would lend one of my instruments based on the request of a middleman (like a show or jam host).
I have no problem letting folks play my banjos, and I also love hearing what other folks can make my banjo sound like. It's kind of like a, "oh, my banjo does have those notes kind of thing". I think part of the fun in going to camps and jams is getting to try instruments that you might not otherwise have the chance to play. I've had the opportunity to play several really cool banjos, including a handful of prewar flatheads, out of folk's generosity.
I think lending is a different beast. I'm happy to lend gear to folks that I trust.
That being said if I asked someone to play their instrument and they said "no" I would understand and not be offended at all.
If I know the person, I don't usually have an issue. I've been asked to play other people's gear though, and I usually say no. One year, at a Christmas party, a few people asked me to play guitar and they had this guy there playing. He handed me his guitar and it was setup something AWFUL. Not bad in that I was uncomfortable, bad as in it was a real challenge to play whatsoever. The intonation was off as well. I played a short tune and thanked him and never repeated the mistake.
Edited by - Nic Pennsylvania on 09/19/2024 13:47:40
I’ve never been asked (though I have offered to let other players play certain banjos).
I like The Old Timer ’s response here — that’s the sort of scenario that would make me feel comfortable offering up an instrument. I think any self-aware musician with real interest would understand the scope of what they’re asking, and do so with similar tact.
Friends tend to gather at my house to jam, & so I've gotten to know each person's "style" of playing. I will freely let a player w/ a delicate touch play my instruments, but will politely suggest to others to lighten up their touch before handing over it over. On occasion I've had to diplomatically retrieve my guitar, banjo, ukulele from some heavy handed player.
There is also a parallel issue on this topic. I refurbish & sell instruments locally on craigslist, so buyers can personally check out the deal, & have sat through many tortuous transactions watching musicians pound, slam, & display Ham-fisted approaches to my ware.
Edited by - tdennis on 09/19/2024 15:04:23
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