Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

171
Banjo Lovers Online


Page: 1  2   Last Page (2) 

Sep 19, 2024 - 5:55:19 AM
likes this
8505 posts since 9/21/2007

As someone interested in banjo specific nomenclature, this one has me puzzled. Back when I was just a tyro and I first saw a "tree of life" inlay pattern described as such, it confused me as I was not seeing a "tree" or a "fruit tree" but clearly a vine.

As I started down the path of devouring primary documentation on banjo history, I noticed that the description "tree of life" seemed to be entirely absent when describing this pattern of inlay.

Usually descriptions were simply "elaborately inlayed" or "handsomely inlayed with pearl". On the rare occasion one will find "vine" used.

So, where did this "tree of life" come from? My theory is that it is folk era presentism pressing assumptions of superstition on previous generations (the "tree of life" being a Christian symbol, but also found in many other religions).

But perhaps I am so narrowly focused on banjos that I am missing period descriptions of this pattern as "tree of life" from other instruments (guitars/mandolins, etc.) or even furniture or jewelry?

Could some of you that use this descriptor provide some pre-folk era sources for this?






 

Sep 19, 2024 - 6:55:07 AM
likes this

Edwards

USA

206 posts since 3/26/2014

Maybe it’s a branch off of Yggdrrazil? Perhaps it’s a banjo makers dream that it’s one of the nine aspects that support our universe From Norris mythology. I could be wrong.

Sep 19, 2024 - 7:03:55 AM
like this

3472 posts since 3/30/2008

I think musicians, dealers & collectors often make up colloquialisms & nicknames that stick to the language out of habit,& may be difficult to ever find an origin.

Edited by - tdennis on 09/19/2024 07:06:09

Sep 19, 2024 - 7:19:05 AM
like this

3595 posts since 4/7/2010

Joel Hooks

Like you, I have never seen the tree in the so-called "Tree Of Life" inlay patterns, so I used the term "fancy vine inlay" or similar when describing a fancy vine inlay.

As I go through vintage catalogs I will look for any reference to Tree Of Life. Like you I suspect it is a term started in the 1950's or 1960's. I do remember first being aware of the term as a teen in the 1970's. 

Bob Smakula
smakulafrettedinstruments.com

Edited by - Bob Smakula on 09/19/2024 07:24:54

Sep 19, 2024 - 7:41:21 AM
like this

2872 posts since 1/4/2009

I agree that the makers never intended it to be a tree of life, I have an acme pro thats called a tree of life these days, it has a pot and vining plant, not a tree at all.
some thoughts on this:
the encyclopedia americana (1920) has this entry on the vine in art and symbolism:VINE IN ART AND SYMBOLISM. The grape vine (vitis vinifera) figures frequently as a symbol from far distant times. In the Greek mythology Dionysius (and with the Romans Bacchus) was god of the vintage and, therefore, a grape vine with bunches of the fruit are among their attributes. Their attendants on the Bacchanalian festivals — the Bacchanals — hence had the vine as an attribute, together with the thyrsus, the latter often entwined with vine branches. For the same reason the Greek wine-cup (cantharos) is commonly decorated with the vine and grapes; wine, of course, being drunk as a libation to the god. In Christian iconography the vine also frequently enters. It is several times mentioned in the New Testament. We have the parable of the kingdom of heaven likened to the father starting to engage laborers for his vineyard. The vine is used as symbol of Christ based on his own statement, “I am the vine.” In that sense a vine is placed as sole symbol on the tomb of the sister of Constantine, the Empress Constantia, and elsewhere. In Byzantine art the vine and grapes figure in early mosaics and on the throne of Maximien at Ravenna it is used as a decoration. The vine as symbol of the chosen people is employed several times in the Old Testament. The vine and wheat-ear have been frequently used as symbol of the blood and flesh of Christ, hence figuring as symbols (bread and wine) of the Eucharist and are found depicted on ostensories. Often the symbolic vine laden with grapes is found in ecclesiastical decorations with animals biting at the grapes. At times the vine is used as symbol of temporal blessing. In decorative art, while the vine is not as favored as many other motifs it is frequently found in works of the Middle Ages, and in the Renaissance we find the vine as ornament on friezes, pilasters, etc. Its supple branches, the beauty of the leaf and the artistic formation of the bunch of grapes, all tend to make the plant one whose characteristics we would expect to find more favor in the modern art world, more especially as the grape bunch is so prolifically used in the decorative arts.

looking my two example so this, an acme pro and clef club, both are from the same era, and both have images of a flowering vine that looks like a cup and saucer plant , which was a favorite of garderns during the victorian era. https://www.burpee.com/cobaea-scandens-cup-and-saucer-vine-blue-purple-prod500503.html#:~:text=A%20favorite%20of%20Victorian%2Dera,blooms%20are%20enticing%20to%20hummingbirds.

Digging in a bit more to cups and saucers, they were popularized by darwin in 1875, and became a staple of wealthy estate and garden decor after that. So i would venture to guess that these inlays were not related to a tree of life, but rather to a status symbol that was popularized in the late victorian / guilded age connected to wealth and beauty. 




Sep 19, 2024 - 8:11:09 AM
likes this

1800 posts since 11/10/2022

A couple years ago when I started playing banjos I thought I would like a carved heal fancy inlay banjo. Ironically, I like simple guitars. The first time I saw a tree of life jer, I recognized it as a vine. I brought it up, "Why a vine". No one answered. So without research I derived my own plausible answer. The tree is the neck, the vine wraps the tree. The tree of life is the combination of the two...neck and vine, which gives music life.

Im glad to see this discussed. Maybe I can be swayed to accept the truth when found.

Sep 19, 2024 - 8:41:34 AM
likes this

8505 posts since 9/21/2007

quote:
Originally posted by NotABanjoYoda

A couple years ago when I started playing banjos I thought I would like a carved heal fancy inlay banjo. Ironically, I like simple guitars. The first time I saw a tree of life jer, I recognized it as a vine. I brought it up, "Why a vine". No one answered. So without research I derived my own plausible answer. The tree is the neck, the vine wraps the tree. The tree of life is the combination of the two...neck and vine, which gives music life.

Im glad to see this discussed. Maybe I can be swayed to accept the truth when found.


Speaking of nomenclature, despite your good efforts, I do not thing your "jer" is catching on.

Sep 19, 2024 - 9:05:20 AM

KCJones

USA

3229 posts since 8/30/2012

No sources of course but the first I ever heard Tree of Life was in descriptions of Ibanez Artist banjos from the 70s. I don't know if Ibanez used that term themselves, but a quick look at their 1976 catalogue does not show the term anywhere. I always figured it was an attempt to avoid IP infringement by changing the names, but that's just conjecture.

Sep 19, 2024 - 9:41:16 AM

2063 posts since 1/13/2012

Ibanez used that style of inlay quite a lot in the '70s on their higher-end instruments, and I've heard the term most often used in relation to them. In a brief look through a few 70s Ibanez catalogs (available online) I found it mostly described as a "vintage vine pattern", but did find one brochure from 1976 where they referred to it by the "Tree of Life" name. I stopped looking after that, but there may be other instances where they used that term.

I haven't seen the term applied to any instruments in print before the mid-70s era, so perhaps Ibanez is responsible.


 

Edited by - Andy FitzGibbon on 09/19/2024 09:41:56

Sep 19, 2024 - 9:49:50 AM

13208 posts since 10/27/2006

The '70s Ibanez catalogs called it a "classical vine inlay" but now call it "Tree of Life" including capitalization. 

Perhaps this inlay design reminded someone of Gustav Klimt's famous 1909 painting of the same name.

Sep 19, 2024 - 10:09:08 AM

2424 posts since 5/19/2018

Think the first time I heard the phrase was from Stan Jay over at Mandoline Brothers back in the early 80’s. Stan was pretty good at thinking up colorful phrases for common things. Before that it was just Vine inlay, or as a Navy friend described it as “Scrambled Egg inlay”.

Stan was also the first person I heard describe the Gibson Style 6 banjo as a Checkerboard Banjo.

Sep 19, 2024 - 11:31:24 AM

1800 posts since 11/10/2022

quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks
quote:
Originally posted by NotABanjoYoda

A couple years ago when I started playing banjos I thought I would like a carved heal fancy inlay banjo. Ironically, I like simple guitars. The first time I saw a tree of life jer, I recognized it as a vine. I brought it up, "Why a vine". No one answered. So without research I derived my own plausible answer. The tree is the neck, the vine wraps the tree. The tree of life is the combination of the two...neck and vine, which gives music life.

Im glad to see this discussed. Maybe I can be swayed to accept the truth when found.


Speaking of nomenclature, despite your good efforts, I do not thing your "jer" is catching on.

 


Jer (short for banjer) predates me and banjo\jo, not my term.  Taught to me by mentor and teacher.  I caught jer long ago.  Didnt know it was a thing to catch it?  Hear it all the time. 

Sep 19, 2024 - 11:39:49 AM
likes this

6213 posts since 12/20/2005

I like the looks of it.
Stewart McDonald had a photo of one on a catalog back in 1980. At that time, I was amazed a banjo could be such a beautiful thing.
It’s my understanding they still have that banjo on display.
I once saw a photo of Eric Weissburg, who was playing with the Boston Pops that evening. I believe he was holding a banjo with this inlay pattern.

I played one in 2005, I believe it was an Alvarez. At a store in Arkansas.
For me, I found it to be a difficult and confusing neck. I don’t think I would really want one.

Sep 19, 2024 - 1:16:06 PM

8505 posts since 9/21/2007

Thinking about it, I remembered that the Scruggs book had a fancy neck in the "how to make a banjo" section, so I just checked:

"Fancy vines can be inlaid by using pewter or 1/16" copper wire for the vine, pearl for the leaves." p138

Sep 19, 2024 - 5:29:32 PM

114 posts since 4/19/2024

I recall a shop class in the 1980s that I took in junior high. We had a 6 week stint on leatherwork where we learned how to cut and make patterns and images in leather. I enjoyed it. My final project was a kit was a desk blotter pad that had pleather vinyl as a pad then two wooden rails on each side and leather strips inside the rails. One of the suggested patterns was called the tree of life but it was really a vine and covered with oak leaves and acorns. I never could explain it and I made it as a gift for my dad and he still has it now at 91. I always thought it looked like some sort of mutant oak leaf and acorn and not a tree. The belts some of the other guys did had the same pattern. I sort of think now that anytime someone has a long, skinny surface that needs a relief, a choice is a viney ropey length that winds around and has leaves and is called a “tree of life”.

Sep 20, 2024 - 3:30:59 AM

1754 posts since 12/26/2007

Hi Joel - sorry to see that you fell down the musical rabbit hole on that topic........ "tree of life" refers to "true vine" (authentic, passed down from person to person) music. You're not supposed to play any tunes more recent than 1948 on a True Vine banjo.

(Source:  Rocky & Bullwinkle's encyclopedia of fractured fairytales, Chapter 9:  folk music etymology, with apologies to Mike Seeger)

 


 

Sep 20, 2024 - 5:27:36 AM
likes this

4916 posts since 3/28/2008

quote:
Originally posted by tdennis

I think musicians, dealers & collectors often make up colloquialisms & nicknames that stick to the language out of habit,& may be difficult to ever find an origin.


Yes. I see tons of examples in the electric guitar world.

I note that the phrase "etz chaim"--Hebrew for "tree of life"--shows up in an ancient Jewish prayer, where it refers to the Torah. Is there any comparable phrase in Christian literature?

Sep 20, 2024 - 5:49:12 AM
likes this

8505 posts since 9/21/2007

quote:
Originally posted by Ira Gitlin
quote:
Originally posted by tdennis

I think musicians, dealers & collectors often make up colloquialisms & nicknames that stick to the language out of habit,& may be difficult to ever find an origin.


Yes. I see tons of examples in the electric guitar world.

I note that the phrase "etz chaim"--Hebrew for "tree of life"--shows up in an ancient Jewish prayer, where it refers to the Torah. Is there any comparable phrase in Christian literature?


In Christian mythology, the "tree of life" was provided for the first man and woman to eat freely from.  The "tree of knowledge of good and evil" was forbidden.  We have to be careful as religious topics are forbidden on BHO and rankly I'm not interested in that aspect.

In fact, the point of my posting this was that during the years of the folk revival the superimposing of religion where there was none was a common theme.  Lots of creative interpretation of historical culture to build a desired narrative.

Another example of this (heard often in New England) are "Cross and Bible Doors".  Totally a post war "modern" attribution.

Sep 20, 2024 - 5:56:15 AM
like this

4916 posts since 3/28/2008

Thanks. This need not be--indeed, IS not, as I see it--a discussion of religion, but rather, of cultural/linguistic history. Moderators, take note.

Sep 20, 2024 - 7:18:31 AM

2063 posts since 1/13/2012

Pretty much every religion/culture has some sort of "Tree of Life" as part of its mythology. Some of the art associated with that does bear some resemblance to instrument fingerboards. Mostly in format, as the art I've seen often takes the form of a tall/narrow panel in a book or on a building.

The vine patterns used on most of the less-expensive historic instruments were mostly, from what I can determine, purchased by manufacturers as pre-inlaid blanks. I don't think any research on who those manufacturers were has been done, and it would be comparatively difficult to do, I suspect. My understanding is that lot of that sort of work was being imported from continental Europe at the time, which probably had an influence on artistic choices. I would really like to find an inlay supplier catalog from the period, if such a thing existed.

Edited by - Andy FitzGibbon on 09/20/2024 07:20:17

Sep 20, 2024 - 11:24:02 AM
likes this

170 posts since 2/4/2010

Perhaps the term " tree of inlay" coming to be erroneously ascribed to banjo " vine " fingerboard inlays may have come from the acoustic flattop world. High grade Maurer guitars among others had fancy symmetrical board inlays resembling classic tree of life motifs and have been called such. I've only seen a handful of presentation banjos where the inlay pattern is mostly symmetrical and could loosely be termed " tree of life ", double Gryphon presentation Electric Fairbanks banjos come to mind. Making distinctions between vines and trees of life might be useful in describing inlay patterns. Calling vine inlay pattern Stewart made Acme banjos, etc. " tree of life " banjos would seem to be a misnomer to me.

Sep 22, 2024 - 4:01:40 PM

hbick2

USA

754 posts since 6/26/2004

I first heard the term "Tree of Life" in the 60's, at a folk festival. If memory serves me, a guitar player from Murray, KY was playing a Lyon & Healy or Washburn Guitar that had an elaborately inlaid fingerboard that he referred to as a "Tree of Life". It was beautiful and his playing was superb.

Sep 26, 2024 - 6:08:47 AM

2872 posts since 1/4/2009

i saw this larson brothers mauer "tree of life" guitar. This is the one many people reference in the guitar world as the source of the "tree of life" inlay. There are no records indicating that this was ever sold as a tree of life, in the catalogs its describes as a "fancy vine" inlay.

The bottom of the inlay shares very loose similaries with the jewish tree of life that someone in a later time could have mistaken as relating , but its really not the same at all, has a completely different arrangment and is missing 3 "branches" the number of points in the jewish tree of life are very important.

In short, i dont think even the mauer larson bros guitars were ever meant to be a tree of life.

https://www.12fret.com/sold-archive/1930-maurer-model-593-tree-of-life/

Sep 26, 2024 - 3:18:58 PM

RB-1

Netherlands

4030 posts since 6/17/2003

While I got used to the pattern, I'm still still relying mostly on the side dots.

My RB-1 must have had it's inlay pattern changed before I got it, now just over 30 years ago.

Careful inspection shows the original white dots were replaced by rosewood ones and the vine consists of brass wire. Half of it  has been sanded away, until flush with the fingerboard.

Leaves were inlayed, made from abalone The whole thing clearly was a 'one of'.

Like said I got used to it and to me, sound and playability are way more important to me than looks.

And sound is what this banjo has in spades....

Sep 27, 2024 - 5:32:23 AM

134 posts since 7/15/2008

Perhaps this scriptural reference holds an answer. Ezekiel 15:36
“Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As the vine tree among the trees of the forest, which I have given to the fire for fuel, so will I give the inhabitants of Jerusalem.”

There are other cases in scripture where the words vine and tree are linked and used interchangeably. The word vine appears in the KJV bible over 440 times. Vines of all types are common in my woods in Tennessee.
Scripture used language that was common to most people. Scripture is full of agrarian references because in those days most people lived off of the land.

Sep 27, 2024 - 8:09:18 AM

2780 posts since 10/17/2013

Why don't they just call it a "Vine of Life" banjo?

Page: 1  2   Last Page (2) 

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Privacy Consent
Copyright 2024 Banjo Hangout. All Rights Reserved.





Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.234375