I just ran through the BHO listings for used openback banjos. Some overpriced; some about right; nothing I though was a “grab it” bargain. Some sellers of Reiters and Boulder Omes seem to value them more than makes sense to me—presumably because of the end of those brands’ production. There’s a dearth of older banjos like Fairbanks and Vega. Don’t know if they’ve fallen out of popularity or people want to keep what they have. All that said, only Bernunzio has a competing number of used openbacks being advertised to the market. I expect I won’t buy another banjo—but it’s fun to see what’s out there.
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Originally posted by Bill RogersI just ran through the BHO listings for used openback banjos. Some overpriced; some about right; nothing I though was a “grab it” bargain. Some sellers of Reiters and Boulder Omes seem to value them more than makes sense to me—presumably because of the end of those brands’ production. There’s a dearth of older banjos like Fairbanks and Vega. Don’t know if they’ve fallen out of popularity or people want to keep what they have. All that said, only Bernunzio has a competing number of used openbacks being advertised to the market. I expect I won’t buy another banjo—but it’s fun to see what’s out there.
"its fun to see what's out there"---- always , & to hear !
Thanks. Enjoyed looking through the Bernunzio’s listing.
I agree with what you said. But it’s not just private sellers. Manufacturers seem to be pushing their prices as well. The new Florida Ome Tupelo is at least $500 higher than what it was before Chuck sold to Gold Tone. And most Pisgahs seem to be going for $2000+. Maybe folks will get used to paying these prices but for now they don’t seem to be flying off the shelves. There does not appear to be a lot of new, high end, open back, American made banjos in the $1000-$1500 range. Fortunately I’m not really in the market but I do enjoy looking.
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Originally posted by CosmicCharlie24There does not appear to be a lot of new, high end, open back, American made banjos in the $1000-$1500 range.
Seeing as the starting point for American-made resonator + tone ring banjos is $3000 (maybe Companion can make one for less), I wouldn't expect any American builder to be able (or have reason) to make a professional grade open back for as little as $1500, let alone $1000.
$1000 gets you a new Deering Goodtime Artisan open back. Enough said.
I'm also not in the market -- unless some ridiculously low-priced/under-valued banjo comes along. Like you and others, I like to look and be aware of what things cost. Then I can better participate in discussions about helping other peope spend their money!
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Originally posted by CosmicCharlie24I agree with what you said. But it’s not just private sellers. Manufacturers seem to be pushing their prices as well. The new Florida Ome Tupelo is at least $500 higher than what it was before Chuck sold to Gold Tone. And most Pisgahs seem to be going for $2000+. Maybe folks will get used to paying these prices but for now they don’t seem to be flying off the shelves. There does not appear to be a lot of new, high end, open back, American made banjos in the $1000-$1500 range. Fortunately I’m not really in the market but I do enjoy looking.
There is this reality-based phenomenon that puts the lie to our self-adjusting free market system: When prices rise, those who benefit from the higher price become accustomed to that level of profit and seldom lower the price. In the real world of business, most companies would rather file for bankruptcy, found offshoot companies and reorganize rather than lower prices.
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Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by CosmicCharlie24There does not appear to be a lot of new, high end, open back, American made banjos in the $1000-$1500 range.
Seeing as the starting point for American-made resonator + tone ring banjos is $3000 (maybe Companion can make one for less), I wouldn't expect any American builder to be able (or have reason) to make a professional grade open back for as little as $1500, let alone $1000.
$1000 gets you a new Deering Goodtime Artisan open back. Enough said.
I'm also not in the market -- unless some ridiculously low-priced/under-valued banjo comes along. Like you and others, I like to look and be aware of what things cost. Then I can better participate in discussions about helping other peope spend their money!
You are not likely to find a ridiculously low-priced/under-valued banjo on this site. I have seen a few pop up, but they appear to be taken down and re-valued in short order. I suspect someone involved in BHO writes to the seller instantly and urges them to raise the price. That is not free-market valuation.
You'd don't need baseless conspiracy theories to know why prices are high and going up. All you need is to look at the money supply over the last decade. It's published on the federal reserve website.
Numbers aside, banjos now are cheaper than ever relative to everything else. Buy one today.
Edited by - KCJones on 09/16/2024 07:30:53
When you think about when you could get an ________ banjo for ________, honestly think about when that was. I did this the other day and realized I was talking about 10-15 years ago. Now think about how much everything has gone up in 10-15 years because builders have all those costs also. A builder recently told me the cost of just hardware that goes into an openback banjo today (with tone ring). I was shocked. Assuming wood material costs are low and add in some for bling (binding, inlays). Subtract that from the price and, for a small builder, that leaves labor. When you average out the number of hours, it isn't much. For larger builders, like Pisgah, you have a lot of general and administrative expenses (labor, overhead, rent). The net margins today are probably thinner even though prices are higher. Plus, these builders have to compete with the used market. With "depreciation" there are no costs to selling a used banjo other than cost of acquisition. Run prices through one of the many inflation calculators online and you'll see that we have greater variety and actually lower prices than what existed when we were (sigh) young.
Who bought the Bart Reiter inventory/operation? I thought we might have seen some continuity in Bart's terrific value/quality by now.
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Originally posted by KCJonesNumbers aside, banjos now are cheaper than ever relative to everything else. Buy one today.
This is so true.
I live in the past, so my frame of reference for step-up banjos is what was available to me in 1972 when I was ready for a banjo with a tone ring, resonator, and flange, but couldn't afford a Gibson, Fender, or Ode. Our only choice was the Kasuga-made bowtie banjos marketed under lots of different names. In May 1972, I bought an Aria bowtie for $150, case not included. I paid $20 for the plain black case of the lower model instead of $30 for the brown fake leather intended for the bowtie.
$170 in May 1972 has the buying power of $1286 today! For that money, you can buy a new RK-35 or 36 or a Gold Tone OB-150, with most online retailers throwing in a case or gig bag and free shipping! It's difficult for me to imagine that my $170 savings from part-time work work when I was a college student inflates out to more than $1100. And even harder to imagine that the also imported banjo available today at that price has a bronze-alloy tone ring (instead of pot metal), three-ply maple rim (instead of plywood), and a pre-war spec flange (in the case of RK).
I bought my main banjo, a Clifford Essex Concert Grand, for $450 in 1969. That inflates to $3,857 today. You can easily buy that banjo for $2,000 or less today—if you can find one. Scarcity, it seems, has not bought demand for that particular banjo. The same seems true for Vega Tubaphones. Young players seem to want a Pisgah or other new instrument over the old ones. Dunno why.
I just paid $350 for a 27 year old original open back Gumby Goodtime, for a shot of nostalgia. I thought I was crazy, as they used to be a dime a dozen all over the place. But the rest of the story is the 6 month of patience, bidding, getting out bid, and seeing the crazy $400-$600 they were getting, and how fast they were moving. By the time I finally found one, by daily checking and pouncing on one, as soon as it was listed… it made me feel like I got a good deal. But in reality, I probably paid more, than when it was new. And if you shop sales, $100 more will get you a new one.
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Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by CosmicCharlie24There does not appear to be a lot of new, high end, open back, American made banjos in the $1000-$1500 range.
Seeing as the starting point for American-made resonator + tone ring banjos is $3000 (maybe Companion can make one for less), I wouldn't expect any American builder to be able (or have reason) to make a professional grade open back for as little as $1500, let alone $1000.
$1000 gets you a new Deering Goodtime Artisan open back. Enough said.
I'm also not in the market -- unless some ridiculously low-priced/under-valued banjo comes along. Like you and others, I like to look and be aware of what things cost. Then I can better participate in discussions about helping other peope spend their money!
For around $1200 you can get a fantastic made in America banjo from either Zach Hoyt or Steve Gerritson(Stone Banjo); maybe not professional grade, but darn close. I'm sure there are others, but I have experience with those two.
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Originally posted by Dean TI just paid $350 for a 27 year old original open back Gumby Goodtime . . . it made me feel like I got a good deal. But in reality, I probably paid more, than when it was new. And if you shop sales, $100 more will get you a new one.
Except that you got a multi-ply rim and the older decoration, I think you got an OK deal. Goodtimes retain value. The going rate for used Goodtimes hovers around 75% the cost of a current new one. New, they're $499. So expect $375, what you might actually have to pay. So your $350 is fine. From what I see in ads, the market doesn't devalue the older ones even though the newer ones are a bit better.
SInce I'm not trying to buy one, I had not seen the bidding activity you're referring to. $600 makes zero sense for a used Goodtime open back seeing as a new one costs $100 less. If people are over-paying for Gumbys, that's nuts.
In a banjo group on Facebook, I was in a discussion with a guy who said he's bought several for $250. Sees them cheap all the time. I think he's lucky, because eBay and Craigslist say otherwise.
>In a banjo group on Facebook, I was in a discussion with a guy who said he's bought several for $250. Sees them cheap all the time. I think he's lucky, because eBay and Craigslist say otherwise.<
I’d love to know his sources, because I didn’t see any that cheap, and was searching FB, EBay, Craigslist, and Reverb daily. Anything that shows up with a buy-it-now under $400 goes quick, or gets bid up. I found the best place was Guitar Center classifieds… that’s where I found mine. No bidding and no hassles, but you gotta check often, and be ready to pounce. They also have the cheapest shipping BY FAR.
Edited by - Dean T on 09/16/2024 19:42:52
Local music shops are also worth checking for used banjos. Store staff are generally not personally interested in banjos are want them gone. Some parts of the country are also cheaper. My rural northwestern corner of SC would not yield the prices mentioned above.
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Originally posted by Dean TI’d love to know his sources, because I didn’t see any that cheap, and was searching FB, EBay, Craigslist, and Reverb daily.
I find that the best deals are on FB Marketplace. Craigslist and Reverb are often musicians trying to recoup their investment. FB Marketplace is sometimes parents cleaning out stuff they bought their kids that never got played. They'll bargain more also. I have gotten new version of Goodtime II (resonator) for $400 and regular (openback) for $300. Both with gigbags.
Face book market place is always the first place I look, but also have my criteria set to 100 miles, as shipping from a private seller usually kills any good deals. So I decided I was willing to drive up to 100 miles for a good deal, on a <$400 item. But no luck in my area of the US. There are a handful modern of Goodtimes, and even several GT 2 and specials, but all over priced.
I think FB Marketplace was one of the places mentioned by the guy who found cheap (what I'd call below market) Goodtimes.
