This sort of cross-cultural picking is a great learning tool and a lot of fun. I'd had a long sordid history of finding tunes in unlikely settings and turning them into bluegrass or semi-bluegrass tunes. In addition to converting old time tunes I've "bluegrassified" Irish, Scottish. Shetland and Orkney tunes, Playford Country Dance tunes, Stephen Foster tunes, Grateful Dead tunes (which are pretty close to bluegrass anyway), O'Carolan tunes, and in one case, a fourteenth century English plainchant tune. Really, you can play anything on the banjo. Not everyone thinks we should, but that's their burden to bear.

In some of these tunes I find myself combining bluegrass,melodic and even some clawhammer. Lots of fun to mess around with all these approaches and techniques. After all, there are only 12 tones in Western music. It's just a matter of how we combine them. So, play away, and don't be discouraged by clawhammer purists who want their jams to be pure old-time.

Quite frankly I've never understood the difference between an "old time tune" and a "bluegrass tune". Most bluegrass tunes are old time tunes. Most bluegrass songs with lyrics are based on old time tunes and just have lyrics added. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I'm an ignorant Yankee that doesn't understand the nuance. But I can't find the difference.

To answer your question, I do this all the time. The "Dillard roll" is basically just drop-thumbing played fingerstyle and works well for matching rhythms if needed.

KCJones

There's a world of difference between old time "clawhammer" tunes and bluegrass tunes. Maybe you missed the word "clawhammer" and were just thinking old time, like old time country.

I've messed around with the old time clawhammer songs and find no relation between them and bluegrass.

The difference between "clawhammer old time" and "bluegrass" is about the same as the difference between a violin and a fiddle. Sally Goodwin is Sally Goodwin regardless of how big your hat is. Bill Cheatham is Bill Cheatham no matter how you cut it up. Shove that Pigs Foot Further in the Fire is the same song played standing as it is played sitting. AABBAABBAABBAABB is the same progression with a resonator as it is with an open-back. Scales are scales, melodies are melodies, and chords are chords, regardless of instrumentation. The only real difference which beat you emphasize (1-3 vs 2-4), the rest is all window dressing. 

Going back to OP, I think going back and forth between the various right-hand techniques is a great way to overcome learning plateaus and avoid stagnation. It gives you new ideas and ways of looking at things, and helps with developing new licks or melody lines that aren't obvious if you stick to one technique. I've never really understood why people tell beginners to pick one and ignore the other, it doesn't really make sense to me. 

I scruggsify a few old time tunes ,, here’s one and it sounds a lot different than a CH player’s version. I guess I’m playing an “impression” of the tune. One I’d like to learn is a beaut - Sally in the Garden.
youtu.be/CCUuqSKERoc?si=YOkPl5iumkT1IsEh

LOVE these guys!! They make these classic rock songs sound like they were originally Bluegrass songs...
youtube.com/watch?v=WdAyO1_0noM
youtube.com/watch?v=3c7bISLhVl8
youtube.com/watch?v=1-nM-B3bUWs

It's not a rare thing for me to try my best on old-time tunes that aren't also bluegrass standards because we tend to have mixed jam sessions. It is good practice and for me there isn't much difference between playing an unfamiliar bluegrass tune and an unfamiliar old-time tune. Perhaps it is even better to play unfamiliar old-time tunes because nobody expects me to play some famous bluegrass banjo player's recorded version of the tune.

I have also tried a bit of clawhammer playing and intend to do more of it. Old-time jams are a very good practice format even though I can't stand listening to them for more than a quarter of an hour.

My version of Flop Eared Mule (Scruggs style) owes partly to a Claw Hammer version by Reed Martin.

Most all of those OT tunes go way back before BG picking. Solders Joy, Whiskey Before Breakfast & Saint Ann's Reel to name but a few.

All great tunes. I do enjoy the pre-bluegrass songs and tunes.

My key to playing old-time tunes in Scruggs style -- assuming the old-time tune has lyrics -- is: play the words. If the tune has no lyrics ... write some.

There is a wealth of old time fiddle tunes that you never hear played by the bluegrass crowd. Maybe it’s in the way they are learned. Recorded versions versus learning from your neighbors or at festivals.

I started studying melodic banjo fiddletunes in the 70s.
I don't use straight Scruggs style very much with fiddletunes.(other than Sugar in the Gourd or Cripple Creek)
When I play Soldier's Joy I try and play what I hear the fiddler playing instead of The Circle Album.
Red Haired Boy,Soldier's Joy and Whiskey Before Breakfast are great "lessons within tunes" that pave the way for fiddletunes in A and D,melodically speaking.

Those tunes are precisely what I have been playing Steve. They are certainly helping my picking, as I work out the best rolls and methods to achieve the melody. I have checked out the melodic scales G and D but find it much easier to go headlong into a familiar tune. My picking is coming together now, so Im quite pleased.

I've been playing melodically for many years,but I've never played a scale.

The tunes cross-over back and forth all the time. But the performance of them can be vastly different. I'm a 5-string banjo picker that occasionally will show up to old-time jams and the evil eye looks I get usually dissipate once they realize I'm not the typical "thrash-and-burn" banjoist. I blend in.

At old-time jams, everyone plays the melody all at the same time, over and over and over. There are no individual solos. So if you can't blend in, you stand out, and that's frowned upon. Also, there really is no introduction or ending. Tunes just start and end. All together.

And at old-time jams, they prefer to play all the tunes they know in one key before changing keys. Try suggesting a tune in a key they're not currently in, the stink-eye looks return. Not like a bluegrass or blues jam where any key goes. It takes some getting used to.

I'm sure Bob Buckingham can comment on that.

But as far as the tunes and songs themselves, absolutely, cross-over that line as you feel, no one gets harmed and there are plenty of wonderful tunes to draw from and learn. I've picked up lots of great tunes from these old-time jams, adapted them to how I play, and it works.

I can relate to that Frank. I am a regular oldtime player(clawhammer). The two styles are very different, but equally enjoyable. Im finding that , a tune is a tune, and once you have the melody, then you can expand on it. Im just loving my banjo at the moment.

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Styles

I can relate to that Frank. I am a regular oldtime player(clawhammer). The two styles are very different, but equally enjoyable. Im finding that , a tune is a tune, and once you have the melody, then you can expand on it. Im just loving my banjo at the moment.

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Yes! Melody is king and once you hear the melody, a tune is a tune is a tune. I love it all, as you do, music is a gift we can both give and receive at the same time.

Mark Styles it's one of my favorite things to do though my style is...a bit unorthodox. For my style and for what I like to hear I tend to use a lot of alternate tunings that aren't typically in the BG repertoire but really seem to facilitate playing the melody as a fiddler would...YMMV!

nickhornbuckle.com/

Hi Nick

That is some beautiful playing. Thanks for sharing.