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Aug 24, 2024 - 7:05:13 AM
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sethb

USA

791 posts since 2/16/2005

Although most of the posts here are about individual playing, many of us also spend a fair amount of time playing with other musicians.  And as a leader in two bands, I’ve learned that although some musicians are excellent players, sometimes they don’t have a clue about performing with other musicians.

So I thought it might be good to start a thread on “band etiquette” -- things to do or not do when you’re playing with other performers.  Here are three of my biggest pet peeves:

  1. Noodling.  There’s a guy in one band who constantly “noodles” on his instrument -- between songs in rehearsals, before gigs while everyone else is setting up, at gigs while I’m introducing the next tune, or even when I’m counting off to start a song. Is he nervous, clueless, selfish, dumb, showing off, or all of the above?  Does he understand the difference between practicing, rehearsing, and performing?   
  1. Being on time.  Exhibit A) Our rehearsal is supposed to start at 3 p.m., but one or two of the players don’t arrive until 3 p.m.  As a result, the rehearsal doesn’t get underway until 3:20, after they have set up, tuned up, laid out their music and gotten a coffee.  So about 20% of a two-hour rehearsal is wasted.   Exhibit B) Our gig starts at 7 p.m., and the vocalist waltzes in at 6:50. So in addition to stressing out the rest of the band by wondering where the heck she is, our 6:30 sound check has to be done without her, and she also spends the first two numbers warming up (and singing flat to boot). There’s an old saying among musicians: “If you’re on time, you’re late!”  In symphony orchestras, many union contracts specify that musicians must be in their seats and ready to play at least 15-20 minutes before curtain time. The conductor has enough on his/her mind as it is, without having to wonder where the principal clarinetist is. But the same thing applies to folks playing in the smalltime!  
  1. Being neat.  When a band plays somewhere, they are being invited into someone else’s venue as guests.  Unfortunately, sometimes band members don’t act like guests. They pile their instrument cases up against a wall (and where they’re still in full view of the audience), pile their music books onto the end of the bar where the bartender is working, and they leave their coats on a chair that someone else actually might like to sit on.  You may be the best banjoist since Eddie Peabody, but if you have lousy manners and are a slob, I guarantee it may be a factor in not being invited back.

So there’s a few of the biggest violations of band etiquette I’ve seen.  Anyone care to share some more?  SETH

Edited by - sethb on 08/24/2024 07:14:14

Aug 24, 2024 - 7:19:17 AM
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GS

UK

144 posts since 11/24/2023

Three big peeves? Man, only three?

I don't like band mates who...

- don't use the spittoon provided
- talk fancy with my wife (my blood's boiling just thinking of this one)
- drink too much, ask to stay over, then talk fancy with my wife (I'm seething now)

 

wink

Edited by - GS on 08/24/2024 07:19:56

Aug 24, 2024 - 7:23:42 AM

sethb

USA

791 posts since 2/16/2005

quote:
Originally posted by GS  Three big peeves? Man, only three?

I certainly do have more than three peeves, but I didn't want to overload the Internet server!  So stay tuned!!  SETH


Edited by - sethb on 08/24/2024 07:24:56

Aug 24, 2024 - 7:31:54 AM

GS

UK

144 posts since 11/24/2023

quote:
Originally posted by sethb
quote:
Originally posted by GS  Three big peeves? Man, only three?

I certainly do have more than three peeves, but I didn't want to overload the Internet server!  So stay tuned!!  SETH


Go for it, Seth! Get those peeves off your chest! Enjoy the rest of your day, I'm off to sit in the garden while the Sun's out, and try not to think of fellas talking fancy!


Aug 24, 2024 - 8:06:38 AM
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Players Union Member

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

30830 posts since 8/3/2003

I don't know if you'd consider this a band peeve or not, but bands to turn the volume up so high that the first 5 rows leave or put in ear plugs. There's no reason to try to blast people out of a festival. That's my pet peeve about bands and the guy working the audio.

Aug 24, 2024 - 8:09:38 AM
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KCJones

USA

3266 posts since 8/30/2012

Even getting a functional band together at all is so frustrating and difficult I usually try to ignore any minor annoyances.

I guess one that comes to mind: be sober. Nothing more annoying than a band member screwing up because they treat gigs and practice like a party. Frank Zappa was absolutely right on this one.

Aug 24, 2024 - 8:22:34 AM
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RioStat

USA

6374 posts since 10/12/2009

sethb, why don’t you talk to you band members about these "peeves", instead of a bunch of, basically, strangers on a website ?

Aug 24, 2024 - 8:34:15 AM
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raybob

USA

14335 posts since 12/11/2003

I played guitar in a Big Band for a couple years, and the director did have to remind people a couple times about noodling and being on time mostly. 7 o’clock rehearsal means in your chair, instrument assembled and ready, music book on the stand by 7 if not before. Unwanted fraternizations didn’t happen.

Aug 24, 2024 - 9:05:38 AM
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HSmith

UK

595 posts since 12/30/2005

I can certainly understand how irritating this can be! I've been playing for more than 50 years, and was fortunate in the 1970s to play in a band where we all agreed to ensure our collective performance was of a professional standard. Each of the five band members learned the parts they said they would. We supported, encouraged and respected each other, turned up on time and behaved in a professional manner. Sadly, my experience since those halcyon days has been very different!
I'd say the most important issue is that everyone needs to agree what the band aims to achieve, and commit to doing all they can to help do so. If it means writing down a set of objectives, then so be it. There can then be no 'Oh that wasn't my understanding!'  If someone is disruptive or doesn't put their weight, they need to be reminded of the band's objectives or be replaced. 
This may seem over the top, and I guess it is if you just want to get together and play for fun. If you want to produce professional quality music, you need to behave in a professional manner. End of rant.

Edited by - HSmith on 08/24/2024 09:08:08

Aug 24, 2024 - 9:38:14 AM
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sethb

USA

791 posts since 2/16/2005

quote:
Originally posted by RioStat

sethb, why don’t you talk to you band members about these "peeves", instead of a bunch of, basically, strangers on a website ?


Scott, I do bring up these points to the band members, with various degrees of success. 

I decided to mention them here for discussion, in the hopes that other musicians will also read them and see these problems.  I've found that sometimes people don't even realize what they're doing, until it's pointed out to them.  SETH 

Edited by - sethb on 08/24/2024 09:40:09

Aug 24, 2024 - 9:40:29 AM
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6083 posts since 5/29/2011

One of my peeves is the musicians who show up to play a gig wearing cut-off shorts and tank tops. That's fine in a jam session but, when you are being paid to play, make an effort to look somewhat professional. I don't expect every band to wear suits and ties but, at least, don't come to the show looking like a homeless person. At one time the group I played in wore black pants and white short-sleeve shirts. That way we looked neat, and we were still comfortable.
Another peeve is when a band member invites someone from the outside to play. We played a show one time in Ridgeway, Virginia and a band member had invited a couple of guys who thought they were the Rice Brothers. I was going to kick off a song for them and one of them got pretty rude about it. He told me that he was capable of kicking off the song without my help. After that, every time he nodded at me to take a break, I would give a little shake of my head. He didn't have time to look at anyone else, so he had to jump in and take a break. I figured if he wanted all the breaks I would give them to him. Someone in the audience finally called him on it.

Edited by - Culloden on 08/24/2024 09:51:47

Aug 24, 2024 - 10:10:54 AM
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sethb

USA

791 posts since 2/16/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjo   I don't know if you'd consider this a band peeve or not, but bands to turn the volume up so high that the first 5 rows leave or put in ear plugs. There's no reason to try to blast people out of a festival. That's my pet peeve about bands and the guy working the audio.

 

Volume can be a big problem.  I guess some bands figure that louder is better!  I believe part of the problem is that some musicians aren’t used to playing with others, and they may have trouble hearing themselves in a group situation.  So they crank up the volume on their amp, which often results in other band members being unable to hear themselves, so then they crank up their amps.  Pretty soon nobody can hear anyone else and the audience just wishes it would all be over quickly.

The other problem is that what you hear on the stage is not always the same thing as what the audience is hearing, so sometimes it's tough to gauge how loud you sound out in the room itself.  

We work without a sound man.  We have one 40-watt PA centered behind the band, which carries just the vocalist.  Each guitarist/banjoist has his own amp (I have a 90-watt Fender Acoustasonic), and the bass man has his own bass amp.  This setup has worked well for us for audiences up to 125 people; our goal is to fill the room with sound so that everyone can hear and enjoy it, rather than just blasting the first five rows. 

We do a sound check before each show, but that can be deceptive because we’re still playing to a mostly empty room at that point, and people will absorb sound.  But at the beginning of each show, I always ask if everyone can hear me, and I also tell people to please let us know if we’re too loud or too soft, or if they can’t hear the vocalist (balance issues).  That may sound amateurish, but again it has worked out well for us.   SETH   


Edited by - sethb on 08/24/2024 10:17:58

Aug 24, 2024 - 10:28:24 AM
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sethb

USA

791 posts since 2/16/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Culloden One of my peeves is the musicians who show up to play a gig wearing cut-off shorts and tank tops. That's fine in a jam session but, when you are being paid to play, make an effort to look somewhat professional. I don't expect every band to wear suits and ties but, at least, don't come to the show looking like a homeless person.
Mark, I was told we should wear something that's a little better that what the best-dressed member of the audience would be wearing. We play a lot of concerts at public libraries, so eventually we went for black pants, white shirts and matching ties (I bought ten identical ties on Amazon for about $100.)  This way, we look like we belong together as a band, and that we're serious about what we play. 
Of course there are exceptions.  More than a few country acts come on stage looking like they just changed the oil in their truck.  But on the other hand, they probably make more money in one show than I'll make in a lifetime! So there's no arguing with success.  SETH    

Edited by - sethb on 08/24/2024 10:32:05

Aug 24, 2024 - 11:09:47 AM
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Players Union Member

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

30830 posts since 8/3/2003

quote:
Originally posted by sethb
quote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjo   I don't know if you'd consider this a band peeve or not, but bands to turn the volume up so high that the first 5 rows leave or put in ear plugs. There's no reason to try to blast people out of a festival. That's my pet peeve about bands and the guy working the audio.

 

Volume can be a big problem.  I guess some bands figure that louder is better!  I believe part of the problem is that some musicians aren’t used to playing with others, and they may have trouble hearing themselves in a group situation.  So they crank up the volume on their amp, which often results in other band members being unable to hear themselves, so then they crank up their amps.  Pretty soon nobody can hear anyone else and the audience just wishes it would all be over quickly.

The other problem is that what you hear on the stage is not always the same thing as what the audience is hearing, so sometimes it's tough to gauge how loud you sound out in the room itself.  

We work without a sound man.  We have one 40-watt PA centered behind the band, which carries just the vocalist.  Each guitarist/banjoist has his own amp (I have a 90-watt Fender Acoustasonic), and the bass man has his own bass amp.  This setup has worked well for us for audiences up to 125 people; our goal is to fill the room with sound so that everyone can hear

and enjoy it, rather than just blasting the first five rows. 

We do a sound check before each show, but that can be deceptive because we’re still playing to a mostly empty room at that point, and people will absorb sound.  But at the beginning of each show, I always ask if everyone can hear me, and I also tell people to please let us know if we’re too loud or too soft, or if they can’t hear the vocalist (balance issues).  That may sound amateurish, but again it has worked out well for us.   SETH   


 


I remember going to Glen Rose one year to hear what I considered a very special band, well known, well liked.  They had a sound man and he managed all the sound.  When their gig started, it was so loud that it literally hurt my ears.  I moved off the 5th row and moved to the back of the festival (outside, roofed but not enclosed).  Even at the very back it was so loud it really muddled the sound of the band.  People were leaving in droves because of the loudness.   I was so disappointed because I traveled over 200 miles mainly to hear that one band.  I find no reason for any group, professional or amateur, to be that loud.    I still love to hear the band and especially the banjo picker, but only in CDs or videos where I can control the sound.  
 
Aug 24, 2024 - 12:41:44 PM
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KCJones

USA

3266 posts since 8/30/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Culloden

One of my peeves is the musicians who show up to play a gig wearing cut-off shorts and tank tops. 


You make Bobby sad. 


 

Aug 24, 2024 - 1:24:18 PM
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642 posts since 7/28/2016

bands that refuse to rehearse ! I played in a band where the lead singer stopped the song halfway thru because he said he couldn't sing to the way I was playing a particular song !

Aug 24, 2024 - 2:14:32 PM
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Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

30830 posts since 8/3/2003

We had matching outfits in our band. Simple, clean, jeans and a blue knit shirt with our names and our band name (I machine embroideried them). If you look together, then you usually are together. However, I've seen some bands that looked like they were unkempt, unclean and downright dirty at times but could play the fire out of their instruments so... I'd give them the benefit of the doubt until I heard them play. I still think clean and neat beats the other way.

Aug 24, 2024 - 3:22:57 PM
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sethb

USA

791 posts since 2/16/2005

Because one of the band members didn't like to wear a tie, we also looked into getting short-sleeved V-neck shirts with collars  (I think they're called golf shirts).  They also would have been good for summertime gigs. 

But after we priced getting them embroidered with the band's name (which would have cost about twice what each shirt cost), we decided to stick with white shirts, which are easily bought and replaced if necessary.  The guy who didn't like ties just got overruled. 

I believe that in classical music, black pants or a skirt and a white top is pretty much the standard.  We thought that just black pants and a white shirt made us look like waiters instead of musicians, so that's one reason we added the ties.  We also could have gone with hats or caps of some sort -- but some of the members didn't want to wear a hat, they said it would have made them too hot, and they were probably right.  SETH  

Aug 24, 2024 - 3:50:28 PM
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sethb

USA

791 posts since 2/16/2005

One more pet peeve: Our bands work from lead sheets rather than charts, and we make up head arrangements for the tunes.  But once we agree on an arrangement, most of the members make notes on the lead sheet about the intro, any breaks, stop times or solos, a tag if there is one, etc. 

But some members think a head arrangement is one that’s only kept in their head, so there’s no need to make any notes about it on the music. As a result, they usually make the same mistakes over and over again as we rehearse and/or perform.  In addition to aggravating everyone else, this can be especially obvious and jarring to the listeners because both bands are also dance bands, and we should be keeping a consistent tempo and rhythm. 

So please keep a pencil in your case along with your picks!  SETH

Edited by - sethb on 08/24/2024 15:55:50

Aug 24, 2024 - 4:42:12 PM
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62577 posts since 12/14/2005

About clothing:

A hundred years ago, the Menomonee River valley between the north side and south side of Milwaukee had the railroad yards, some HUGE factories, the stockyards, and so forth.
So a local Bluegrass band called themselves the INDUSTRIAL VALLEY RANGERS, and had bowling shirts made up, with the "team" name on the back, and the individual's name on the front.

Since Milwaukee has a LOT of bowlers AND Bluegrass fans, it went over well.

Mary and I scouted the thrift stores and rummage sales, and found ALMOST matching striped, button down shirts.
I'd like us to wear matching hats, but she does LIKE wearing hats, and that's that.


Aug 24, 2024 - 5:04:35 PM
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62577 posts since 12/14/2005

Was in a band with a guy who Sincerely Believed that the LESS fun we had rehearsing, the BETTER we would be on stage.
And he would INSIST that we do the same damned passage over and over and OVER, until HE was satisfied that it was good enough.

Lucky me! I left town and the band fell apart.

Aug 24, 2024 - 6:03:39 PM
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488 posts since 7/24/2021

There has to be a pecking order . Someone has to be the boss/ leader that leads by example and holds everyone to a higher standard. The leader/boss cannot worry about offending someone, too many people looking for ways to get offended these days .There has to be rules established. We can’t just show up to work any ole time we want to or we’ll be looking for another job. Or that’s the way it used to be. Put your foot down and you’ll quickly see who wants to play in a band and who doesn’t. Weed em out !

Aug 25, 2024 - 2:24:41 AM
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TB4

Italy

165 posts since 9/7/2022

This topic is original and interesting. I attach a short video in which the band leader scolds me and the drummer, who had asked me a question. As for finding oneself in embarrassing situations, this has often happened to me: being an occasional guest in N.O. style bands, very often the leaders would start a song without telling me the title and its key. I can't read, but my ear has always saved me from disasters...

https://youtu.be/HpVHL1c6GZA

Edited by - TB4 on 08/25/2024 02:31:37

Aug 25, 2024 - 4:27:11 AM
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sethb

USA

791 posts since 2/16/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Will Frady 

There has to be a pecking order . Someone has to be the boss/ leader that leads by example and holds everyone to a higher standard. The leader/boss cannot worry about offending someone, too many people looking for ways to get offended these days. 


While many musicians appear to be very self-confident, underneath that thin veneer they're usually mushballs and are very easily hurt. Add to this the fact that some people don't take criticism (and even constructive criticism) well, and I've found you need to be diplomatic about getting things fixed. 

Sometimes I will frame the issue as a question, such as "Do you think that was a little too fast?" or "Were we together on that last chorus?"  I also try to speak to a band member privately if possible, to avoid embarrassing him/her in front of the rest of the group.  But I've still had a few rare occasions when I've just lost it and blown up in front of everyone.  Heck, nobody's perfect!  SETH

Edited by - sethb on 08/25/2024 04:29:36

Aug 26, 2024 - 5:41:01 AM
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banjopaolo

Italy

2048 posts since 11/6/2008

I usually play with musician who are close friend so, if something goes wrong I can simply talk and make it clear…

@GS my wife is a musician and she often plays with me, the other guys who play with us knows both me and her since many years so there’s no reason for me of being jealous!

Aug 26, 2024 - 8:11:48 AM
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42 posts since 3/7/2012

All of the above plus: Having a band member say they can't play a gig they had committed to and the gig was confirmed with the venue. In my opinion, once you said you're going to do a gig you'd better show or be in the emergency room at the local hospital.

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