I have a Deering Goodtime which is currently strung with Aquila Nylgut minstrel strings. I like to play tuned much lower than standard pitch. I've been considering giving the Julia Belle strings a try but am concerned about the lack of a truss rod. However, since these strings are not being tuned to standard pitch, are they actually putting the neck under any more stress than a set of light gauge steel strings tuned to open G?
You're thinking correctly, Tom.
Without knowing exactly the string gauge and tension index, I'd venture to say it'd probably be fine.
Even just one whole step down is significantly less tension.
So yeah, the lower you tune, the safer you are with that.
The relevant numbers are on the Deering Web site. They give the gauges of the Julia Belle set and their Lights, which are what comes on a new Goodtime. Those are {12, 14, 20w, 24w, 12} and {10, 11, 13, 21w, 10}.
One version of the OP question is how much to lower the pitch of the tuning to get the same tension with the Julia Belles as some standard tuning with the Lights.
Now comes string physics: the pitch frequency f ~ 1/(down-up time of waves on the string) ~ wave velocity ~ sqrt(Tension / mass per length) ~ sqrt(Tension) / gauge diameter. So, keeping the tension the same requires keeping f x gauge the same.
The other thing you have to know is that a half-step in pitch is a change in frequency of about 6%. (That's because 1.06 ~ 12th root of 2.)
Putting these together (if I can still do arithmetic -- which is not guaranteed), going down 3 half-steps will put the 1st string 12 at the same tension as the original 10. The 24 will only need about two half steps down to match the tension of the original 21 -- but being in tune altogether is probably more important.
I'm too lazy to do the other strings. So, it's worth checking that tuning down three frets is what's needed.
You should run the numbers yourself to be sure, but using the online string tension calculator website I got estimates of 62.5lbs tension from the recommended light gauge Deering brand strings tuned to standard pitch, 69.1lbs for the Julia Belle tuned 3 semitones down and 61.64lbs for the Julia Belle's at 4 semitones down.
This is using a 26.3" scale length and a 0.021w third string in place of the 0.020w in the set due to limitations on the site.
I assume the 1st and 5th string create equal tension.
Thank you for your replies.
I haven't used an online string tension calculator but this sounds promising. I suppose the key thing is whether four frets down would work. I usually play out of fDGCD tuned down three semitones. I'd definitely be happy playing tuned down another semitone as I play solo but it all depends on what that tension would feel like under the fingers (and sound like).
I suppose it's a case of try it and see, but ultimately if tuned appropriately there's no reason these heavier gauge strings are going to cause a problem if tuned appropriately.
You want to change something about your banjo, but maybe it isn't the strings....
What do you think of the feel and tone of the Nylguts?
What sort of bridge are you using? If it's a standard one (made for steel) it is way too heavy, and is like using a mute with non-metal strings.
The right bridge will give you a whole lot more of the attack and clarity I think of as essential to a banjo's tone.
In the 1960s and earlier, we had a name for what is now known as the Julia Belle or Hartford D tuning (.025" 4th) set from Pearse: We called them, Medium. I still have a set of Gibson strings in those gauges with the .025" 4th. In the 1960s, Vega Mediums had an .026" 4th.
If the neck had a steel reinforcement, I'd say, put them on and tune to standard pitch as I have since I started playing in the '60s. But the Goodtime does not have a reinforced neck so not such a great idea. Tuning them low is no problem — but how low?
D'Addario has an online string tension calculator: put in the scale, gauges and tuning; it will tell you individual and combined string pull. Easy to figure out.
Edited by - mikehalloran on 08/12/2024 20:24:52
At least in its previous incarnation, the D'Addario tension calculator used the formula I taught their head of R&D when he was a college sophomore.
But why think when you can just click?
quote:
Originally posted by davidpppAt least in its previous incarnation, the D'Addario tension calculator used the formula I taught their head of R&D when he was a college sophomore.
But why think when you can just click?
Perhaps you can teach them how to correct some obvious mistakes. Here's the current version of the D'Addario String Tension Calculator, It's more complicated but not too difficult to use.
The big mistake I found is that it gets octaves wrong. It changes them at B/C instead of G#/A. Nothing like calculating tension down a minor third and it adding 75lb pull because it jumps up when you lower both D strings to B. Oops! Changing the octave in the next column lets you fix this to get a correct reading but really ... no one knows that octaves begin on A and not C?
The site does list it's in Beta. Hopefully, someone will notice this and get it fixed.
As for the results on tension differences between the sets… I'll let the OP use it. Why should I have all the fun?
Caveat: this is accurate for D'Addario strings only. Many wound strings will have a different tension due to wrap/core gauges, materials and densities. It will, however, give you a reasonable idea.
quote:
Originally posted by mikehalloran
the octave in the next column lets you fix this to get a correct reading but really ... no one knows that octaves begin on A and not C?The site does list it's in Beta. Hopefully, someone will notice this and get it fixed.
I always thought that each numbered octave started on C. You inspired me to to check that, and I still think so:
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