Post a photo if you can.

... tone ring = tension hoop?   ... below 12th fret = above 12th fret?   Like sculliganman says ^^.

The tension hoop is on the top side of the head where you pick the strings and the tone ring is UNDER the head. Heads come in low, medium and high "crowns" as you look at the side of the head. A low crown would cause a high tension hoop while a high crown allows the tension hoop to drop lower. the low crown is 6/16", medium 7/16", and high 8/16". Sounds like you need a higher crown head, especially since I don't think many of us are going to get crown on our head.... banjered

Did you have this banjo before the setup job was done? (is the issue new)
And was the head replaced by the tech?
It actually just sounds like the setup was done incorrectly.
There's a little bit of wiggle room where the heels lags go through the pot.
Depending where it is when you tighten the coordinator rods, you'll 'lock in' the surface of the fretboard relative to the elevation of the head.
If it's low then you'll have higher action and bottom out on the pot when fretting up high.
Unless the head was replace with the incorrect crown height, it sounds like what you might be dealing with.

Really simple problem. The crown height is to shallow so the rim will not drop below the level of the neck. The rim must be flush or below the level of the fretboard. If the head was replaced they screwd up, have the replace it.

Bob

Not to argue, but .063 is 1/16 of an inch, which is ridiculously low action (string height), whether you measure that at 12th or 22nd fret. Consensus seems to be that 1/8 inch is playable action.

If you mean "relief" as measured between a long straight edge and the top of the 7th or 8th fret, then yes that is high. Typical relief seems to be 0.012 to 0.015 inch. Stelling banjo setup calls for .020 or more, I think.

I recently had some fret work done on one of my banjos and to avoid buzz the repairman set the relief at close to 1/16. Have to admit the banjo sounded good. But that's high for me and I've been slowly flattening the neck. Haven't measured yet. Just going by feel and sound.

Are you perhaps using several incorrect terms for banjo parts and parameters?

Hey thank you all for your replies. I'm new to all of this and was using just the terms that the tech had used and now understand I have gotten some names wrong. Like many have already mentioned I did mean the tension hoop being higher and rising above the neck when viewed from the side. I have included some pictures that hopefully will make everything a little clearer though it was challenging getting the right angle.

When I said below the 12th fret I meant past the 12the fret onto the higher octave so maybe I should say above the 12th?

As far as the .063 inches measurement that was just for the height of the bridge that the tech had used, with that bridge the action varied from the top of the neck to the bottom but was quite high throughout but more so in the higher frets which allows enough space for the string to vibrate on top of the tension hoop, this was the workaround. I've since removed the bridge because the high action makes ornaments too difficult but now strings are hitting the tension for those high frets, you can see exactly what I mean in the video here (youtube.com/shorts/CURavuwd684...ure=share).

Anyhow it's not like I'm shredding past 12th any time soon but it doesn't seem right that and instrument should be built this way. It seems to me there's only two ways around this either the tension hoop has to be lowered or the neck has to be raised above the tension hoops height but not sure if either can be done.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce Berry Banjos

Did you have this banjo before the setup job was done? (is the issue new)
And was the head replaced by the tech?
It actually just sounds like the setup was done incorrectly.
There's a little bit of wiggle room where the heels lags go through the pot.
Depending where it is when you tighten the coordinator rods, you'll 'lock in' the surface of the fretboard relative to the elevation of the head.
If it's low then you'll have higher action and bottom out on the pot when fretting up high.
Unless the head was replace with the incorrect crown height, it sounds like what you might be dealing with.

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Not ruling out that the setup was done incorrectly. Since I just play irish I hadn't really gone past the 7th fret for anything so it could've been happening before. Also the frets were higher before, I did had them polished because one issue I had with it was that there was a bump on the third fret that caused buzzing. I know he said he fixed the coordinator rods which he said where stripped. This is a banjo I bought refurbished so someone could've attempted a setup before it was in my hands. The head wasn't replaced but what you described as "'lock in' the surface of the fretboard relative to the elevation of the head" sounds about right what I need to do. I'd like to get a bit more detail as to what to do with the coordinator rods to get this done, what should I be looking for?

quote:

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Originally posted by banjered

The tension hoop is on the top side of the head where you pick the strings and the tone ring is UNDER the head. Heads come in low, medium and high "crowns" as you look at the side of the head. A low crown would cause a high tension hoop while a high crown allows the tension hoop to drop lower. the low crown is 6/16", medium 7/16", and high 8/16". Sounds like you need a higher crown head, especially since I don't think many of us are going to get crown on our head.... banjered

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Oh so I just need to replace with a head that has the 1/2" crown? Is there a way I can tell by looking at the current head how tall is the crown? If all I need is to replace the head with one that has that detail I might just try this at home and learn a little about this myself. Seems this probably will void the setup and require more adjustments but could be fun to just learn more about this instrument.

Edit: So I was peeking into the head and it has "Remo Wheatherking head Banjo Only" written on it and I'd checked the specs for this banjo that the head should be a "Remo Rennaissance", maybe this just is proof that perhaps the head was changed by whoever had this banjo before ? Effectively with the wrong crown height.

I'm not particularly knowledgeable in such matters, but isn't the tone ring determining the height/level at which the head sits?  

Wouldn't a head with a different "crown" still sit at the same level?

"he fixed the coordinator rods" is what really scares me.

I wonder what he actually meant by that.

Re tapping the rods, or maybe replacing the lags? 

That's gonna be hard to tell without actually laying eyes on it.

Not knowledgeable at all but from what I'm understanding in here depending on crown height there's a tension that pulls down the tone ring so that it's more at level with the fretboard. I'm wondering now... had complained about the sounds been a little to thin and the repair guy did release some tension to the head adding some more bottom end which I do like. Could it be that since the tension now is lower the tone ring doesn't get pulled back down enough? Do I need a high crown so that I can get a lower tuning tension to work on my banjo since it is an archtop tone ring?

Banjojuju,
I watched the video and it looks like it is actually your tone ring.
You've got an arch-top and the neck should be sitting higher on the pot.
The neck is too low on the pot.

Your tension hoop and crown height all check out.
The fretboard needs to come up above the low channel in the hoop/
He's got it flushed like it would be on a flathead.

Thanks Bruce. Is there a way to bring the neck up? Or is the solution to pull the tone ring down by either changing the head to higher crown or adding more tension like it seems to have been suggested?

Looking at the pictures Goldtone have of this banjo everything looks quite similar. What sized bridge do you have on it now? What size bridge did the tech put on it? For size I mean height. And it might be that the co-ordinator rods have been too messed with so the neck angle is too shallow.

quote:

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Originally posted by banjojuju

Thanks Bruce. Is there a way to bring the neck up? Or is the solution to pull the tone ring down by either changing the head to higher crown or adding more tension like it seems to have been suggested?

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What he said about "fixing" the coordinator rods is a bit concerning.

But, If the lags are in their original places, you should be able to bring the neck up.

You shouldn't need a new head or anything.

You'll have to loosen the strings and the coordinator rods, then push on the heel to bring the fingerboard level up.

Question: Does this "tech" work in a shop that sells banjos? Do they sell more than just a few imported banjos, or is it more of a guitar shop that "also does banjos"?

If your tech can't fix this problem on their own and resorts to hacks like you've shown us, that's a sign that they don't actually know what they're doing. It's also not likely that we can diagnose and repair the banjo over the internet. 

My recommendation is to seek a refund, or at least don't give this person any more money. And certainly don't let them touch your banjo again. And then after that, go find a real banjo tech to fix your instrument.

As Berry Banjos states, the neck needs to be raised. If the holes in the rim are large enough, do as he says about loosening rods and pushing it up. If not, the lag screws in the neck will need to be relocated. This can be easy or complicated, depending on the heel cut. Someone knowledgeable will need to address this job.

STOP!! 

Everyone should stop posting comments until they've watched Banjojuju's  linked video. His banjo has an archtop tone ring and the strings are in fact hitting the raised head when he frets them.

So the problem is not head crown or tension hoop. The problem is totally inept setup compounded by apparently bad geometry of this banjo. The neck is not fitted to the pot in a way to produce playable action. The current setup does not meet minimum acceptable standards.

Whoever did the setup appears to know nothing about banjos in general or archtops in particular.

Again: Watch the video, then comment based on what you see.

I'm on a phone and it's not convenient to get into a detailed description of what needs to be done. Plenty of you can do that: After you watch the video and see what's happening.

quote:

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Originally posted by Old Hickory

STOP!! 

Everyone should stop posting comments until they've watched Banjojuju's  linked video. His banjo has an archtop tone ring and the strings are in fact hitting the raised head when he frets them.

So the problem is not head crown or tension hoop. The problem is totally inept setup compounded by apparently bad geometry of this banjo.

 

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I agrree wityh the first part. However the "tech" did use a different bridge which might have been ok and what we see here is the banjo with a brdige the OP put on it seems. Also there's that confusing measurement which suggests that with the bridge the "tech" used the action was at 1/16ths and there was no problem it seems. But that was too high for the OP when really it is too low. Although we don't know where that was measured. So it's all a bit confusing.  So really we need far more info on bridge heights and action measurements at the 12th fret with that "tech" bridge. Although of course the co-ordinator rod thing is highly suspicious.

I'm going to suggest that you cease and desist, and take it over to Dusty Strings.  They probably have a repair person who knows something about banjos.

I see you bought the banjo "refurbished," so I doubt that it's under warranty, but if it is, Dusty Strings is an authorized dealer and can negotiate with Gold Tone to see if they will cover any part of the repair.

I don't know if it applies here, but everyone should remember that tinkering with an instrument that's under warranty can void the warranty.
 

quote:

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Originally posted by GrahamHawker

quote:

. . . there's that confusing measurement which suggests that with the bridge the "tech" used the action was at 1/16ths and there was no problem it seems.

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Very confusing, because the OP clarified in another post that 0.063" wasn't actually the action but was the height of the bridge installed by the tech. Since there's no such thing as a 1/16" bridge, I assume his decimal is in the wrong place. He probably means .63, which is .625 rounded up. 5/8".

Compounding the problems of the banjo and the setup is the OP's unfamiliarity with banjo terminology. I think people here reasonably jumped to the incorrect conclusion that head crown was the problem and that strings were hitting the tension hoop, not the tone ring because we assumed the banjo was a flat head and how many of us have seen an archtop come out of a setup with fretted strings hitting the raised part of the head?

But there's too much else going on here. I agree with Bob that he should take the banjo to an actual banjo tech.

Given the differing perspectives on the matter, I think the best route is to try another expert. As Bob said I think taking it to Dusty Strings is the way to go. I should've just done that from the beginning but I just thought they'd have a big waiting line and I needed the banjo. The guy I had do this setup said he had a lot of experience with banjos but judging by the way he articulated this issue his knowledge might not have been very deep. With some luck banjo might still be under warranty since I bought it in October, we'll see. Thanks everyone for the advice, this is wonderful forum and I look forward to participate more as my path to learning the banjo continues. I'll see what they say at Dusty next week and give an update as to what was the root cause and if anything can be done.