Try playing a passage painfully slow, then repeat it at double time (which should still be only moderately lively). Then back to snail speed.
Going back and forth like that will build speed and timing.

There's another thing of equal importance: dynamics.

Apart from playing the notes on the 'right' place (neither too early or late) in the rhythm, the loudness of individual notes determines whether you're hearing music or just a bunch of consecutive notes...

What I found more helpful than using a metronome is the strummachine app, which provides jamtracks where you can set the key and the timing. Practicing timing with your favourite bluegrass song is also more fun too.

Put the banjo down for a percentage of your practice session while you develop your body clock!

In my experience, many of the players at jams with suspect timing don't seem to get any better no matter how many years they attend.

My stock answer: Instead of the 200 year old technology of the metronome I would like to recommend an iPhone app to learn how to have perfect timing. In my years of teaching I've found of course that some people have a good sense of rhythm and some don't. The need to stay in time never goes away once you can actually play your instrument. Now most people with a good sense of timing don't even need to know about eighth notes as opposed to sixteenth notes, triplets, etc. They can just feel it. On the other hand I've had students who could play a whole song note for note but with bad timing and it just makes for a train wreck when others try to play along! Anyway getting back to this app, that by the way is called RHYTHM SIGHT READING $3.99, I've had great success with it fixing students timing problems. And the beauty of it is that at the same time it teaches how to read all different rhythm notation symbols that you could come across in tablature or standard notation. This also helps those that have a great sense of rhythm but can't play off of written music because they can't figure out these timing symbols, this app fixes that. The thing that is amazing is that it tests you on your accuracy with a visual report up to a tenth of a second. You can also learn to play ahead or behind the beat for that drive or laid back feel. Finally another thing, it has is infinite patience which I do not possess.

Something else you might try and see if it helps: COUNT!! If you are counting 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & as you play, oh, let's say a forward roll, and can count and play at the same time, you timing should get better.

Or..... as has already been mentioned, get some sort of software that plays a beat so you can hear it.

How about tapping your foot to the time; i.e., 1, 2, 3, 4. Some people can do this, others just get confused with so much to keep track of.

What helped me most on timing was playing songs, vocals, if you will, so I could actually sing along. If you know the song and sing the melody, that will help with timing. You can also hum along with instrumentals if you can hear the melody. If you think you can't sing, hum or say the melody to yourself.

I used Band in a Box so I could input chords to any song, play at any speed and in any key. If your timing is off, you'll know it fairly quickly. BIAB is fairly pricey, so that may not be an option for some.

And, of course, playing with others will definitely help with timing. You may not be at the place where you think you an do that, but it's something to think about for later.

Lastly, listening to the music you're learning, going to jams and listening, going to festivals and listening. The more you immerse yourself in the music, the easier it will become to play it.

Rick- I dont have an iphone..will it work on an android? Also, do you do it with your instrument or is it a standalone thing?
Sherry-I do the counting thing all the time..it does help but I want my timing to be spot on..ya know? And just recently I have found that quietly singing helps to get things in line a little better too. Im pretty sure Im not quite ready for BIAB yet..need a few more months or so. Is strum machine kinda like that?

Play along with a CD or go to YouTube and mark as 'favorites,' some songs you can play. Turn the volume up enough so you can feel the beat and know you are in time with the song.

Bobby

quote:

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Originally posted by Patrick1962

I simply cant seem to be able to concentrate on 3 things at the same time...R. hand L. hand, and the metronome. Either my R. hand or L. hand stops working or I literally cant hear the metronome.

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I had similar problems for a long time. No brain capacity left for processing even more information. Perhaps that is the way some brains are set up, many others don't seem to have these problems and play well together with others from early on. The good news is that you can get used to a situation like this. I can now not only listen to the others while playing, I can even sing while playing (very basic playing, of course) and, when playing a break to a tune I am familiar with, I can even think a little bit ahead and decide what I'll play differently this time (only Scruggs style). The bad news is that it took me years to get there but I think it is an essential element of this type of music and musical culture: play together, hear what the others are doing, react, interact. We don't play fancy chords and no intricate melodies either, the difficulty lies in another place. I would also suggest to play with a more natural sounding backing track instead of the metronome. Play something very simple, play it slowly and in time. This is a big challenge but absolutely worth it. Actually, I don't see any way around this. This is probably the most important skill in bluegrass. You will often hear musicians that seem to be able to play difficult stuff at ludicrous speeds on their instruments but for some reason nobody can play together with them. That because they never worked on timing and rhythm and are unable to even notice their own shortcomings in this regard. It will always sound better to play something very basic with good timing and rhythm than to play something complicated badly.

Find yourself a good Bluegrass rhythm guitar picker and start jamming with them.

If you can find someone patient enough to sit there and lay down a steady stream of 4/4 timing, G - C - and D chord progression, at a reasonable BPM,  it should help immensely.

The key to using a metronome is listening. No hands necessary.

for myself a big help ----was learning to pat alternate feet--a single foot patting seemed to cheat easier--eventually --I learned --to keep time that way without thinking about it --but not always--gradually speeding up still happens
 

playing with rhythm tracks can help a lot  --but bad timing can still ''get by'' more with them especially if they don't have a pin point bass line

My way I ask no agreement

Get a drum practice pad, some sticks, and a beginner snare drum book that has the rudiments. After a while use the metronome. Do it a little every day. When you get thru the book you will have a better sense of time and if you practice all the rudiments on both hands you will be happy with the result. Drumming your way to better fiddling. Just my 2 cents.

Use the clicks as backbeat rather than downbeat. Like a mando chop or snare drum.

quote:

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Originally posted by Patrick1962

Rick- I dont have an iphone..will it work on an android? Also, do you do it with your instrument or is it a standalone thing?

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seems to be mac only

https://sites.google.com/view/readrhythm-app/home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIgMn09Cxmc

Maybe you’re taking on too much. Fine motor skills and pattern recognition take place in completely different parts of the brain. Involves a lot of cross-talk across the hippocampus.
Whatever your right and left hands are doing, you need to internalize it to the point you’re hardly thinking about it at all. Then you can concentrate on timing.
When I play, I’m mostly thinking about timing and tone.

another recollection came to mind--Nowadays i use a drum machine 0r keyboard rhythm track for a "click track" but in the 70s I bought an electric metronome and soon realized I wanted it much louder-- so I hooked a piezo pick up to it--if I made it loud enough --it subdued the ignoring--but kinda what laurence was saying --if your left hand is taking to long to get there --that needs fixed first--the first accomplishment on some difficult arrangement is to be able to keep it between the beats all the way thru --in one take--no matter how slow--speeding up later --brings to light -the passages that need revised
---this is the way I do it--I don't claim it to be a correct way

Jam with people that have good,solid timing.

Thanks everybody, I really do appreciate all the suggestions. I would really like to try a bunch of the things suggested but I am still a beginner and will be for quite some time...had a head injury from a motorcycle accident a few years back so I learn things much slower now. Essentially I am the banjo student thats riding the short yellow schoolbus, however, I am also a stubborn SOB and refuse to give up

about 2 more head injuries will probably fix a lot of your banjo playing problems--ha ha--just kidding --you'll get it--seeing the wrong part can be a giant step imo

quote:

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Originally posted by Laurence Diehl

Maybe you’re taking on too much. Fine motor skills and pattern recognition take place in completely different parts of the brain. Involves a lot of cross-talk across the hippocampus.
Whatever your right and left hands are doing, you need to internalize it to the point you’re hardly thinking about it at all. Then you can concentrate on timing.
When I play, I’m mostly thinking about timing and tone.

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Though I've only been learning for 4 years, I was thinking along the same lines as Laurence....only recently have i been able to ignore the finger coordination aspect and focus on timing and tone. I've found blurgrass backing tracks helpful...feeling immersed in music has a nicer vibe than a metronome, for me.

A lot to be said for immersion into the idiom of the music. When I took up fiddle in 1972, I literally fell off the rock n roll bandwagon, eschewing listening to any thing that was not old time or bluegrass. LOL, I missed all the good rock of the 70's, the garbage of the 80's and all the rest following that. But I developed a really solid sense not only of timing but of chord structure, breaks and back ups, styles and melodies. Good Luck!

The metronome needs to be learnt. I think you should get both hands working together first then metronome

Some of the time I can do a passable alternating (?) roll to accompany my "singing."   I doubt they're talking about playing a few milliseconds before/after the beat, but a couple of pretty fair musicians in our area have mentioned that I have "good timing."  I've got a few minutes with an online metronome under my belt. Go figure??

As soon as I could make G C and D chords I started playing along with my musical parents.
I'm a firm believer in simple immersion/osmosis.
My folks had great timing and harmony common sense.

YouTube play along backing track videos

I've spent many hours here. It's great, as you can start by learning chords, changes, and just chop along, then roll along, then start getting fancy, all while keeping time. It's free, and works great on todays smart TVs. I wish this would have been around 20 years ago! Still today, I'm learning and improving with this.