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May 27, 2024 - 3:36:34 PM
3615 posts since 12/31/2005

May 27, 2024 - 3:46:45 PM

15058 posts since 1/15/2005

Wow ..... those East Tennessee Sate golf team members were probably not too happy!

May 27, 2024 - 4:15:58 PM

Owen

Canada

15162 posts since 6/5/2011

... any word on whether actual damage occurred?

May 27, 2024 - 6:06:06 PM
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3615 posts since 12/31/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Owen

... any word on whether actual damage occurred?


Yes, lots of clubs and other possessions were destroyed.  Delta put out a release, asking for a "mulligan."  I don't think anyone thought it was funny.

May 27, 2024 - 6:23:34 PM

5563 posts since 5/9/2007

That is way funny!

May 27, 2024 - 6:32:03 PM

3615 posts since 12/31/2005

May 28, 2024 - 4:37:34 AM

KCJones

USA

3060 posts since 8/30/2012

You can have checked cargo moved quickly or gently.

Pick one.

May 28, 2024 - 5:30:30 AM
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3615 posts since 12/31/2005

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

You can have checked cargo moved quickly or gently.

Pick one.


I disagree.  Look at the golf club example.  All they had to do was move the cart over to the belt.   You don't need one guy throwing it so another guy can pick it up off the ground to do what the first guy could have done more easily.  An undergrad process engineering student could devise a system that involved no throwing.  In fact, they could probably design one that does not require people.

May 28, 2024 - 5:45:15 AM

KCJones

USA

3060 posts since 8/30/2012

Brian, airlines in the US alone move over 1,000,000 bags from origin to destination every single day. 99.999% of them make it to their designation on time and intact. And they do it every day.

I think it's amazing that you have such a simple solution to this longterm logistics problem. And even more impressive is that you could analyze and improve a complex logistics system after watching a 2 minute video, despite having no subject-matter expertise, no formal education, and zero actual real world experience with the system.

You should bring your ideas to the airlines, I'm sure that they would be glad to make their process more efficient.

Edited by - KCJones on 05/28/2024 05:46:22

May 28, 2024 - 6:12:51 AM
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Owen

Canada

15162 posts since 6/5/2011

"Bring ideas to ..... " reminds me of 'way back when I was a labourer on a construction crew.   The foreman told us to unload some  concrete forming stuff off a particular side of the trailer. Without formal education in the matter wink, I toot-de-sweet realized that if we tossed them off the other side they'd be closer to where we'd later be setting them up... so I asked the foreman, "Why don't we ... etc."  " 'Cause I said to put 'em here!"   [Being paid by the hour, it made no real diff to me, but still ..... .]

May 28, 2024 - 6:17:56 AM
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3615 posts since 12/31/2005

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

Brian, airlines in the US alone move over 1,000,000 bags from origin to destination every single day. 99.999% of them make it to their designation on time and intact. And they do it every day.

I think it's amazing that you have such a simple solution to this longterm logistics problem. And even more impressive is that you could analyze and improve a complex logistics system after watching a 2 minute video, despite having no subject-matter expertise, no formal education, and zero actual real world experience with the system.

You should bring your ideas to the airlines, I'm sure that they would be glad to make their process more efficient.


     I guess all I can say is that your experience with the airlines has been different than mine (and everyone else's).   Putting aside the fact we are not talking about lost luggage, your numbers are not even close.  55% of passengers have lost luggage.  Overall the airlines lose about 7/10 of 1 percent, which is  a lot of bags.  In 2021, that was 2 Million bags.  American loses almost 1%.  That's like several bags every flight.   (In fairness, some of that is not on the handlers.  It can be attributed to connections that are too tight where the bag cannot make it to the next terminal).
      But again, we're not talking about lost luggage.  We're talking about improper handling.   I watch handlers, and I would agree they mostly do a good job and efficiently go from belt to the cart.  But I have also witnessed stuff like in the two videos I posted.   Gate checking improves your odds somewhat, but if I had to fly with a checked banjo, the neck is coming off before it flies.
     Unfortunately, there are not good separate statistics for damage.  They get lumped in with "mishandled."
https://simpleflying.com/why-and-how-often-does-luggage-get-lost/
https://www.foxweather.com/lifestyle/what-airports-airlines-lose-most-luggage

May 28, 2024 - 6:26:09 AM

KCJones

USA

3060 posts since 8/30/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Owen

"Bring ideas to ..... " reminds me of 'way back when I was a labourer on a construction crew.   The foreman told us to unload some  concrete forming stuff off a particular side of the trailer. Without formal education in the matter wink, I toot-de-sweet realized that if we tossed them off the other side they'd be closer to where we'd later be setting them up... so I asked the foreman, "Why don't we ... etc."  " 'Cause I said to put 'em here!"   [Being paid by the hour, it made no real diff to me, but still ..... .]


Great example Owen. A perfect demonstration of people not knowing why something is done a certain way, giving their input on how it should be done, to the detriment of the overall process. Your foreman should have trusted your expertise rather than assuming he knew best despite not having the experience. 

May 28, 2024 - 9:22:56 AM
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15058 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Brian Murphy
quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

Brian, airlines in the US alone move over 1,000,000 bags from origin to destination every single day. 99.999% of them make it to their designation on time and intact. And they do it every day.

I think it's amazing that you have such a simple solution to this longterm logistics problem. And even more impressive is that you could analyze and improve a complex logistics system after watching a 2 minute video, despite having no subject-matter expertise, no formal education, and zero actual real world experience with the system.

You should bring your ideas to the airlines, I'm sure that they would be glad to make their process more efficient.


     I guess all I can say is that your experience with the airlines has been different than mine (and everyone else's).   Putting aside the fact we are not talking about lost luggage, your numbers are not even close.  55% of passengers have lost luggage.  Overall the airlines lose about 7/10 of 1 percent, which is  a lot of bags.  In 2021, that was 2 Million bags.  American loses almost 1%.  That's like several bags every flight.   (In fairness, some of that is not on the handlers.  It can be attributed to connections that are too tight where the bag cannot make it to the next terminal).
      But again, we're not talking about lost luggage.  We're talking about improper handling.   I watch handlers, and I would agree they mostly do a good job and efficiently go from belt to the cart.  But I have also witnessed stuff like in the two videos I posted.   Gate checking improves your odds somewhat, but if I had to fly with a checked banjo, the neck is coming off before it flies.
     Unfortunately, there are not good separate statistics for damage.  They get lumped in with "mishandled."
https://simpleflying.com/why-and-how-often-does-luggage-get-lost/
https://www.foxweather.com/lifestyle/what-airports-airlines-lose-most-luggage


Correct Brian ..... everyone, except maybe KC, has had problems with airline luggage.  One my last trip to Scotland with my wife and son, Terminal 5, at Heathrow, lost 27,000 bags on the day we arrived.  My golf clubs came four days into the trip.  My wife's luggage arrived 6 days into the trip, and my son's golf clubs arrived back in the UNited States two weeks after we got back home.  I sent a claim to British Airways for $1800, with zero back-up information (receipts, etc.) and promptly received a check, no questions asked.  It turned out that to correct the situation with the bags, they had to send them to Italy by truck (because the airlines for some reason could not Xray them) and have them sorted.  It was no fun going to Scotland for a golf trip and playing with rented clubs.

I don't think it takes an industrial engineer to understand that throwing bags to the concrete tarmac is not a good system ..... regardless of how many bags you handle a day, year, or century.  Sometimes things are done because it is cheaper ..... not because it is better!

May 28, 2024 - 8:55:17 PM
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1412 posts since 1/26/2011

Those ramp workers are wit Unifi Aviation, 49% owned by Delta. They are union employees. As an industrial engineer who worked in a union shop I can tell you that process changes would probably have to be negotiated, and will be used during negotiations as bargaining chips. But that would be contract specific. Any actions by those employees will be argued as reasonable by the union steward. The whole thing will be messy.

But further reading after a Google search seems to have indicated Delta was going to take care of reimbursing ETSU students. But it had to have been a distraction for them as they went to the tournament.

May 30, 2024 - 12:20:27 PM

15058 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by jdeluke137

Those ramp workers are wit Unifi Aviation, 49% owned by Delta. They are union employees. As an industrial engineer who worked in a union shop I can tell you that process changes would probably have to be negotiated, and will be used during negotiations as bargaining chips. But that would be contract specific. Any actions by those employees will be argued as reasonable by the union steward. The whole thing will be messy.

But further reading after a Google search seems to have indicated Delta was going to take care of reimbursing ETSU students. But it had to have been a distraction for them as they went to the tournament.


Wow ..... someone who actually knows what they are talking about ..... other than Brian ....... how refreshing!

PS ..... my D-I-L is a Georgia Tech Industrial Engineer graduate ...... maybe your same college!smiley

May 30, 2024 - 1:02:03 PM
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1412 posts since 1/26/2011

quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink
 


 

PS ..... my D-I-L is a Georgia Tech Industrial Engineer graduate ...... maybe your same college!smiley


I graduated ffom Georgia Tech in 1976.  Spent two years setting work standards in a paper products plant with a union and then 43 years working with covered employees at a major electric utility.

May 30, 2024 - 1:07:48 PM

15058 posts since 1/15/2005

quote:
Originally posted by jdeluke137
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink
 


 

PS ..... my D-I-L is a Georgia Tech Industrial Engineer graduate ...... maybe your same college!smiley


I graduated ffom Georgia Tech in 1976.  Spent two years setting work standards in a paper products plant with a union and then 43 years working with covered employees at a major electric utility.


Way ahead of my D-I-L.  After graduation in the early 2000's she went to work for the GT Athletic Department for a number of years and then moved on to other sports related jobs ....... but her GT IE education made her a very valuable employee in every field she has worked in.  Being naturally smart and an organizer hasn't hurt either!

Jun 3, 2024 - 10:41:09 AM

Fracker

USA

43 posts since 1/12/2024

I fly Delta four or five round trips a year. I often times take a guitar and check it as baggage. In the last fifteen years they've never lost my luggage and my guitar has arrived just fine. The case takes a beating though and once they cracked an SKB case. The guitar was unscathed. I took it to the Delta rep and she processed it right there. I got a check a week later. I have no problems with Delta at all.

Edited by - Fracker on 06/03/2024 10:42:10

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