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Apr 17, 2024 - 9:05:12 AM

hehfay

USA

11 posts since 1/15/2024

I think I broke it tightening the head.




Apr 17, 2024 - 10:05:53 AM
like this

16065 posts since 12/2/2005

Looks like you broke the head itself.

Apr 17, 2024 - 10:06:20 AM

1670 posts since 1/9/2012

With skin heads, the analogous part is called "flesh hoop" -- gross but true. On your mylar head, the mylar is fused/glued into that aluminum ring. In both cases, the hooks pull the "tension ring" down onto that part, tightening the head. As long as the mylar is not torn or pulled out of that aluminum ring, the head can be tightened and will function as expected -- irrespective of the separation in the aluminum ring.

I suggest that you take off the arm rest and inspect along the ring for tearing or separation.

Apr 17, 2024 - 10:22:40 AM

hehfay

USA

11 posts since 1/15/2024

quote:
Originally posted by davidppp

With skin heads, the analogous part is called "flesh hoop" -- gross but true. On your mylar head, the mylar is fused/glued into that aluminum ring. In both cases, the hooks pull the "tension ring" down onto that part, tightening the head. As long as the mylar is not torn or pulled out of that aluminum ring, the head can be tightened and will function as expected -- irrespective of the separation in the aluminum ring.

I suggest that you take off the arm rest and inspect along the ring for tearing or separation.


I see what you're saying. I took off the armrest and i do notice a tear. Thanks!

Apr 17, 2024 - 10:30:26 AM

151 posts since 11/30/2021

I had a remo head that I put on just recently that did the same thing. The tension ring split on the seam where the metal is supposed to meet in the manufacturing process. It wasn't due to over tightening, I monitored the tension with a drum dial. But it did mean that the head sounded a little off to me. Could have been many other factors, but I just didn't like the sound, so I swapped it out.

Apr 17, 2024 - 10:42:12 AM
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15675 posts since 10/30/2008

PLEASE next time you put on a head, tighten that tension hoop down EVENLY all the way around 360 degrees! The tension hoop in your photos is BADLY overtightened in the general area of the armrest (that I can see). Uneven down-tension on the tension hoop will 1) bust heads, and 2) permanently warp the tension hoop.

When you first put the new head on BEFORE you do any tightening, use anything you have to determine if you're off to a good level start. Set the pot on a flat, level surface, and use a level (or something) to be sure the head is resting on the pot at something close to level. Check again when you lay the tension hoop on the head. Use your hands to keep it level.

Usually you only start tightening a brand new head with maybe 4 tension hooks, each 90 degrees apart from its neighbor. However much you tighten on hook, tighten the other 3 the same number of turns. As the tension hoop pulls out the gross slack in the new head and everything start to draw down onto the pot, add in othe tension hooks which you tighten by fingers to get them about even with the 4 you started with. Then tighten them all a bit (never more than one turn of the T wrench at the beginning) using the tire changing pattern, moving from one hook to its OPPOSITE number, then move sideway to the next hook, followed by its opposite number, until all have been tightened the same amount. You'll see and hear the head slowly getting tighter. Sight along the plane of the head and tension hoop to have some hope of everything tightening down on the level and plane. Keep this up til you can hear and feel the head getting some "tone" to its sound. Cut back to just 1/2 turn at a time. As it gets tighter yet, cut back to 1/4 turn at a time. Continually check for level tension hoop. As you approach the desired tightness you want, cut back to 1/8 turn at a time.

If you find you are drawing down some portion of the tension hoop out of a level plain, back it off and tighten up its neighbors until the "high" part of the tension hoop catches up on its downward journey with the lower part of the tension hoop.

Go SLOW. Be fussy. Learn to judge the "feel" of the tension hooks through the wrench. You never want to put a lot of torque on a hook that already feels very tight.

I wouldn't use a driver or ratchet (you can't develop any feel with these tools). Use the old fashioned T wrench and TAKE IT EASY.

A tension hoop that isn't level eventually becomes embarrassing to any banjo technician. Learn to take pride in keeping everything flat and level.

Better luck on the next head.

Oh, get that tension hoop off NOW and lay it on a flat surface and hope it's not permanently warped!

Edited by - The Old Timer on 04/17/2024 10:45:17

Apr 17, 2024 - 11:12:29 AM

hehfay

USA

11 posts since 1/15/2024

quote:
Originally posted by The Old Timer

PLEASE next time you put on a head, tighten that tension hoop down EVENLY all the way around 360 degrees! The tension hoop in your photos is BADLY overtightened in the general area of the armrest (that I can see). Uneven down-tension on the tension hoop will 1) bust heads, and 2) permanently warp the tension hoop.

When you first put the new head on BEFORE you do any tightening, use anything you have to determine if you're off to a good level start. Set the pot on a flat, level surface, and use a level (or something) to be sure the head is resting on the pot at something close to level. Check again when you lay the tension hoop on the head. Use your hands to keep it level.

Usually you only start tightening a brand new head with maybe 4 tension hooks, each 90 degrees apart from its neighbor. However much you tighten on hook, tighten the other 3 the same number of turns. As the tension hoop pulls out the gross slack in the new head and everything start to draw down onto the pot, add in othe tension hooks which you tighten by fingers to get them about even with the 4 you started with. Then tighten them all a bit (never more than one turn of the T wrench at the beginning) using the tire changing pattern, moving from one hook to its OPPOSITE number, then move sideway to the next hook, followed by its opposite number, until all have been tightened the same amount. You'll see and hear the head slowly getting tighter. Sight along the plane of the head and tension hoop to have some hope of everything tightening down on the level and plane. Keep this up til you can hear and feel the head getting some "tone" to its sound. Cut back to just 1/2 turn at a time. As it gets tighter yet, cut back to 1/4 turn at a time. Continually check for level tension hoop. As you approach the desired tightness you want, cut back to 1/8 turn at a time.

If you find you are drawing down some portion of the tension hoop out of a level plain, back it off and tighten up its neighbors until the "high" part of the tension hoop catches up on its downward journey with the lower part of the tension hoop.

Go SLOW. Be fussy. Learn to judge the "feel" of the tension hooks through the wrench. You never want to put a lot of torque on a hook that already feels very tight.

I wouldn't use a driver or ratchet (you can't develop any feel with these tools). Use the old fashioned T wrench and TAKE IT EASY.

A tension hoop that isn't level eventually becomes embarrassing to any banjo technician. Learn to take pride in keeping everything flat and level.

Better luck on the next head.

Oh, get that tension hoop off NOW and lay it on a flat surface and hope it's not permanently warped!


Do I need to take the whole neck off to remove the tension hoop?

Apr 17, 2024 - 11:29:34 AM
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BobbyE

USA

3499 posts since 11/29/2007

You do not need to remove the neck to remove the hoop. Sometime there is enough clearance or wiggle room to get it off. You might have to loosen the co-rods if there is not enough clearance but not to the point of removing the neck completely. Again, go slow here and don’t force anything.

Bobby

Apr 17, 2024 - 3:52:13 PM

RV6

USA

1491 posts since 2/3/2012

I like to use a tire tread depth gauge to measure around the rim to make sure the head tightens down evenly.  I put an "ear"  of the gauge on the tension hoop and the "probe" on the head and use the scale on the gauge to make sure the head has the same measurement around the rim.

I've found that just "eye balling" the head from different angles around the circumference of the rim is fairly accurate and a good double check.  I do this without the arm rest installed and when things look good, I install the rest.

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