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Apr 11, 2024 - 11:39:49 AM
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banjoy

USA

11585 posts since 7/1/2006

quote:
Originally posted by conic

Oh dear, its funny how when the thread is turning to Cliffs favour some are scared of the truth and want it cancelled, disgraceful also as it somebody else's post. you could not make this up,
Its a good job there are some level headed mods.


Not sure if you're referring to me, but if so, you're 180 degrees from where my truth is. My first long post to this thread, for those who bothered to read it, relayed the truthful experience of only one of many threads way back then, which is still in the archives (as far as I know those threads were never hidden), an accurate reporting of same. I have never called Hicks a racist or any other name. In this or any other thread. Ever. I don't know the guy. I'm not going to make that judgment of him, then or now. I posted above that I thought Hick's controversial musical posts were a healthy and welcome thing here on BHO. I still believe that, those discussions were lively and had merit. It was all the other stuff, again, a matter of record in the archives, that was the bulls*** that any reasonable person would not want to see here. Anyone on this site doing those things would be booted too. And others have been booted for similar things. This is simply a fact.

My opinion is this thread served its purpose long ago, and it's nothing more that circular arguments at this point. You may not agree, or see that, but that's what I see it. I'm not running from anything.

Edited by - banjoy on 04/11/2024 11:41:35

Apr 11, 2024 - 11:43:32 AM
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807 posts since 4/28/2012

Thank goodness this thread was not closed due to peer pressure.

Some very important facts are now coming to light.

We need to have faith in and trust the
moderators. Did anyone consider that maybe...just maybe they know what they are doing!

Apr 11, 2024 - 12:12:43 PM
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Owen

Canada

15014 posts since 6/5/2011
Online Now

I think moderator Bill has previously, and more than once, told us everything we need to know, or at least will be privy to, w.r.t. moderating,  " .... it depends."

Apr 11, 2024 - 12:49:14 PM
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2039 posts since 4/10/2005

This situation and the involved issues and parties, suggest many sub-topics that are very interesting and compelling aside from individuals. I am finding myself musing about merely one little branchlet, namely--the "authenticity wars" in oldtime/clawhammer.

I remember years ago there were some very ruffled feathers here about positions and views of Dwight Diller (RIP) in that vein. My impression for years has been that there is a lot of "authenticity display" and "authenticity possessiveness" by an array of characters across the entire spectrum, ranging from obnoxious to inanely pretentious, precious and curated. It might be interesting to muse in a separate thread about "why" this is such an issue in the oldtime/clawhammer sector.

Perhaps there have been other threads on this theme. But it is so odd. And funny, too, since what gets pride of place as "authentic" at a given cultural moment changes every decade or two. Regrettably, at this particular cultural moment, it is more fraught and loaded than I recall since falling for this pocket of banjo music several decades ago.   Again--this is one small byway or offshoot of the topic of this thread, which involves other issues.

Edited by - ceemonster on 04/11/2024 12:52:56

Apr 11, 2024 - 1:12:24 PM

KCJones

USA

2993 posts since 8/30/2012

Regarding the defense of insults against "non-members", I don't buy it. It's total hogswallop.

Is it okay to make a post saying that Jake Blount is a race-baiting anti-semitic black supremacist carpetbagger? He's not a member here either.

Edited by - KCJones on 04/11/2024 13:18:41

Apr 11, 2024 - 1:23:57 PM

83 posts since 4/24/2019

quote:
Originally posted by ceemonster

or years has been that there is a lot of "authenticity display" and "authenticity possessiveness" by an array of characters across the entire spectrum, ranging from obnoxious to inanely pretentious, precious and curated.


It's marketing.  People carve out a niche and then defend it like a wildcat.

Every frailer that comes out of Berkeley sounds like Bruce Molsky.  There's nothing wrong with that.  More power to them.  But when they claim they are resurrecting an old, neglected tradition that belonged to their ancestors, or they make a big deal about their sexuality, or they shame me for knowing a song I learned as a kid, they lost me.  It might get them an NEA grant, but I could care less.  I think CH reacted to this sort of thing, which made him a target, then he reacted again, and the feed back loop was set in motion.

Apr 11, 2024 - 1:35:20 PM
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2039 posts since 4/10/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Jehoshaphat
quote:
Originally posted by ceemonster

or years has been that there is a lot of "authenticity display" and "authenticity possessiveness" by an array of characters across the entire spectrum, ranging from obnoxious to inanely pretentious, precious and curated.


It's marketing.  People carve out a niche and then defend it like a wildcat.

Every frailer that comes out of Berkeley sounds like Bruce Molsky.  There's nothing wrong with that.  More power to them.  But when they claim they are resurrecting an old, neglected tradition that belonged to their ancestors, or they make a big deal about their sexuality, or they shame me for knowing a song I learned as a kid, they lost me.  It might get them an NEA grant, but I could care less.  I think CH reacted to this sort of thing, which made him a target, then he reacted again, and the feed back loop was set in motion.


 

FYI, since there are actually two different schools--UC Berkeley is a public university on the West Coast.   Berklee College of Music is a private music conservatory and traditional/folk music factory, er, institution of higher learning, on the East Coast. 

Edited by - ceemonster on 04/11/2024 13:35:45

Apr 11, 2024 - 1:41:22 PM
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3021 posts since 2/4/2013

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

Regarding the defense of insults against "non-members", I don't buy it. It's total hogswallop.

Is it okay to make a post saying that Jake Blount is a race-baiting anti-semitic black supremacist carpetbagger? He's not a member here either.


Of course it's hogswallop but it's not specifically stated in the rules. Of course the mods who have banned Clifton Hicks and deleted his posts will be far more familar with what he writes.

And as to the seond point it is not okay unless there is some evidence. As I mentioned about the post you complained about it didn't take long to find something that fitted the phrase used in that post.

Apr 11, 2024 - 1:46:53 PM
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2039 posts since 4/10/2005

quote:
Originally posted by GrahamHawker
quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

Regarding the defense of insults against "non-members", I don't buy it. It's total hogswallop.

Is it okay to make a post saying that Jake Blount is a race-baiting anti-semitic black supremacist carpetbagger? He's not a member here either.


Of course it's hogswallop but it's not specifically stated in the rules. Of course the mods who have banned Clifton Hicks and deleted his posts will be far more familar with what he writes.

And as to the seond point it is not okay unless there is some evidence. As I mentioned about the post you complained about it didn't take long to find something that fitted the phrase used in that post.


 

"Some evidence" can be argued until the cows come home.  But conclusions must be based on facts, evidence, and a full and fair airing of accounts.   But that has not been proven in any legal context, and this forum isn't a context where that is going to be able to occur, or a context appropriate to battle over that.   Which is one big reason why conclusory, inflammatory appellations and characterizations of people, a la the Twitter-sphere, have been barred here.  Er, supposedly.

Apr 11, 2024 - 1:57:33 PM
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KCJones

USA

2993 posts since 8/30/2012

Hey if we're allowed to call Jake Blount a racebaiting antisemitic black supremecist carpetbagger (and he is, that's a fact), I'm good with the rest of it. Fair trade in my book. Rules are rules, after all.

Edited by - KCJones on 04/11/2024 14:00:56

Apr 11, 2024 - 4:39:43 PM

27 posts since 4/11/2024

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

Hey if we're allowed to call Jake Blount a racebaiting antisemitic black supremecist carpetbagger (and he is, that's a fact), I'm good with the rest of it. Fair trade in my book. Rules are rules, after all.


When people tell you who they are, believe them.


Apr 11, 2024 - 4:50:26 PM
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Bill Rogers (Moderator)

USA

27967 posts since 6/25/2005

After discussion, we’re locking the topic for all the reasons y’all can imagine. Not a reaction to any one or two posters, but to the collective non-music arguments on all sides. If you want to start another discussion about Hick’s playing and teaching materials, that’s welcome. But we need to avoid the “why isn’t he on BHO anymore?” discussions. Thanks.

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