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Feb 28, 2024 - 11:39:07 AM
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7680 posts since 7/24/2013

quote:
Originally posted by banjo bill-e

Perhaps it is nonsense, Mike, but I do believe that how his actions would be viewed and praised on social media played a major role in his decision. I also tend to believe that he learned and absorbed his views and attitudes about his cause of the day from social media, and that two years ago this ongoing thing which we are not mentioning was not even on his radar.


The role it played is the reach of the message. I would be reluctant to dismiss a human beings' adversity to calamity  as a condition of social media. One can gather the same information from nearly any news source in the world. Some people care more than what is convenient, I admire that. He's a guy who took a stand, and in my opinion, is less impacted by social media than all the rubes mistaking Instagram posts and tweets as "action".

Feb 28, 2024 - 4:39:41 PM

12734 posts since 8/22/2006

Suicide is a selfish act. It says to the family grieving that I don’t believe you all could have helped me through this emotional pain.

Feb 28, 2024 - 5:16:27 PM

Owen

Canada

15035 posts since 6/5/2011

I'm no expert, but I wonder if "one size fits all" is always applicable.   My understanding is that in some instances there may be no "through" ... the future can be as bad as, or worse than, the current situation.

Feb 28, 2024 - 5:17:30 PM
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7680 posts since 7/24/2013

quote:
Originally posted by 5B-Ranch

Suicide is a selfish act. It says to the family grieving that I don’t believe you all could have helped me through this emotional pain.


As someone who has volunteered for a crisis line for twenty years, this statement is simply wrong.  

Feb 28, 2024 - 6:29:07 PM

12734 posts since 8/22/2006

It maybe wrong in your world but I believe that if the person contemplating the act would reach out to people who love them there might be a way to convince the suicidal person that there’s another way.

Feb 28, 2024 - 7:46:31 PM

Owen

Canada

15035 posts since 6/5/2011

Fwiw, I Googled <is suicide selfish?> and the preponderance of stuff that came up says it's not.

Feb 28, 2024 - 7:46:48 PM

Owen

Canada

15035 posts since 6/5/2011

What the ?!?!?  ... edited out a double post .... for the second time this evening.  sad

Edited by - Owen on 02/28/2024 19:48:09

Feb 28, 2024 - 9:52:53 PM

12734 posts since 8/22/2006

What do you call some one that does not share with anyone? Sharing your feeling and thoughts with love ones is being open. To not share your feelings and pain, to me, is being selfish. What are families for? Suicide hot lines are set up for what? To help the suicidal individual right? That person may be sharing thoughts and feelings to a complete stranger but will not talk to someone that cares and loves them? 

Edited by - 5B-Ranch on 02/28/2024 21:53:57

Feb 28, 2024 - 11:17:28 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

72023 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

Mental illness, if even only temporary, can’t be rationalized. What seems logical to healthy folks doesn’t compute with a mentally sick person. It’s may seem selfish or cowardly to us,  but to a depressed or despairing individual it seems like the only road out.

Edited by - chuckv97 on 02/28/2024 23:19:46

Feb 29, 2024 - 4:24:40 AM

4768 posts since 4/29/2012

Anybody else remember Jan Palach ? Does our view on this depend on whether we agree with the protestor ? Whether their protest is ultimately successful ?

Feb 29, 2024 - 4:36:19 AM

41127 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by 5B-Ranch

What do you call some one that does not share with anyone? Sharing your feeling and thoughts with love ones is being open. To not share your feelings and pain, to me, is being selfish. What are families for? Suicide hot lines are set up for what? To help the suicidal individual right? That person may be sharing thoughts and feelings to a complete stranger but will not talk to someone that cares and loves them? 


Mebee the ...

Suicide..Hot Line..in..

Canada...is onta supmthin...

Very good at ..assistance...in that area..

Feb 29, 2024 - 4:38:09 AM

41127 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by AndrewD

Anybody else remember Jan Palach ? Does our view on this depend on whether we agree with the protestor ? Whether their protest is ultimately successful ?


I will halfta look up the Jan dude..

 

But you bring up a good point..worth consitering..imo.

Feb 29, 2024 - 4:45:08 AM
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41127 posts since 3/5/2008

quote:
Originally posted by chuckv97

Mental illness, if even only temporary, can’t be rationalized. What seems logical to healthy folks doesn’t compute with a mentally sick person. It’s may seem selfish or cowardly to us,  but to a depressed or despairing individual it seems like the only road out.


Having not been in thos shoes...yet...meself.. (some may claim that debatable )..

 

 

Yer thought seems valid..

Feb 29, 2024 - 5:11:33 AM

62071 posts since 12/14/2005

Mental illness, by definition, is irrational.

But not all irrational decisions are due to metal illness.

Feb 29, 2024 - 6:23:03 AM

Owen

Canada

15035 posts since 6/5/2011

Mr. Ranch: "To not share your feelings and pain, to me, is being selfish."

I acknowledge your "to me" qualifier, but to me there's more to "selfish" than "not sharing."  [Lots of definitions/explanations via Dr. Google.]   

Fwiw, I have  l-o-t-s  of thoughts and feelings that don't "share,"  but I don't see myself as being particularly selfish .,.. and if that isn't a sound basis for extrapolation, I don't know what would be. wink

The rational/irrational aspect reminds me of the message on a poster down at our yocal health lab re. the need for, or the role/availability of counseling: "Perception is reality."

Feb 29, 2024 - 6:25:20 AM
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banjo bill-e

Tuvalu

13771 posts since 2/22/2007

A woman recently performed "Suicide is Painless" at an open mic and I was reminded that while I enjoy that melody, I do hate those lyrics, because suicide is not at all painless----for the survivors.

Feb 29, 2024 - 7:06:46 AM

313 posts since 4/7/2023

*Mike Gregory

Mental illness, by definition, is irrational.

But not all irrational decisions are due to metal illness.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You'd have trouble in proof ie: The door is both open and closed at the same time?

According to case law in a litigation between claimant 'Windthorst' and the company he worked for in a senior capacity, the Judge presiding eventually gave judgment of fair dismissal to Windhorst's company, he was found culpable by phycological and irrational fear and other resulting in mental imbalanced incapacity. He lost his job.

Feb 29, 2024 - 7:25:01 AM

79657 posts since 5/9/2007

So the monks against the Viet Nam war are to be revered,but someone utterly fed up with the military/industrial connection to innocent deaths isn't?

Feb 29, 2024 - 12:32:49 PM

62071 posts since 12/14/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Dempsey-T2

*Mike Gregory

Mental illness, by definition, is irrational.

But not all irrational decisions are due to metal illness.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You'd have trouble in proof ie: The door is both open and closed at the same time?

According to case law in a litigation between claimant 'Windthorst' and the company he worked for in a senior capacity, the Judge presiding eventually gave judgment of fair dismissal to Windhorst's company, he was found culpable by phycological and irrational fear and other resulting in mental imbalanced incapacity. He lost his job.


A person owns a vehicle which runs, and does not need repairs. That person buys another vehicle, because they feel like it, eevn though it puts them in debt for a few years.

That's not mental illness, nor is it a totally rational decision.

Feb 29, 2024 - 1:03:12 PM
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Owen

Canada

15035 posts since 6/5/2011

Be forewarned ... thread drift

A blonde tried to sell her old car, but was having a lot of problems selling it because the car had 250,000 miles. One day she mentioned her problem to a friend who told her, “There is a way to make the car easier to sell but it’s not legal.”  “That doesn’t matter,” replied the blonde.

“OK,” said the friend. “Here’s the address of a friend of mine who owns a car repair shop. Tell him I sent you and he will turn the counter in your car back to 50,000 miles. Then it shouldn’t be a problem selling your car.”  The following weekend, the blonde made the trip to the mechanic.

A few weeks later their paths cross, and the friend asked the blonde,  “Did you sell your car?”  “No,” replied the blonde, “Why should I? It only has 50,000 miles on it.”

Edited by - Owen on 02/29/2024 13:12:42

Feb 29, 2024 - 8:47:40 PM
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Players Union Member

Tommy5

USA

4235 posts since 2/22/2009

quote:
Originally posted by steve davis

So the monks against the Viet Nam war are to be revered,but someone utterly fed up with the military/industrial connection to innocent deaths isn't?


The monks weren't against the war, they were protesting the Diem government shutting down the Buddhist temples I believe. Your point is well taken, I don't think the defenders of the Alamo were considered  insane or mentally unbalanced for their act suicidal act.

Feb 29, 2024 - 8:53:10 PM
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Players Union Member

Tommy5

USA

4235 posts since 2/22/2009

quote:
Originally posted by Owen

Be forewarned ... thread drift

A blonde tried to sell her old car, but was having a lot of problems selling it because the car had 250,000 miles. One day she mentioned her problem to a friend who told her, “There is a way to make the car easier to sell but it’s not legal.”  “That doesn’t matter,” replied the blonde.

“OK,” said the friend. “Here’s the address of a friend of mine who owns a car repair shop. Tell him I sent you and he will turn the counter in your car back to 50,000 miles. Then it shouldn’t be a problem selling your car.”  The following weekend, the blonde made the trip to the mechanic.

A few weeks later their paths cross, and the friend asked the blonde,  “Did you sell your car?”  “No,” replied the blonde, “Why should I? It only has 50,000 miles on it.”


Did you know it's 2024? You are still telling blonde jokes?  If you don't think blondes are  stupid, the joke makes no sense . Change  the word blonde to "banjo player "there  , now it's acceptable.

Edited by - Tommy5 on 02/29/2024 20:53:43

Feb 29, 2024 - 9:12:12 PM
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chuckv97

Canada

72023 posts since 10/5/2013
Online Now

banjoak : how many banjo players does it take to screw in a light bulb…..?
four, , one to screw in the light bulb and three to tell him that Earl didn’t do it that
way.

Feb 29, 2024 - 10:09:51 PM

raybob

USA

14135 posts since 12/11/2003
Online Now

At least 2 Buddhist monks self-immolated in Viet Nam, one was male the other female. 2 reasons given in 2 separate articles are: protest over the Diem gov't repression of the Buddhist religion, and protest over the war in general. There were also 8 people in American that did the same thing during that time here in our country. One man did it in what should have been in full view of McNamara's office in the Pentagon. I don't know whether McNamara was in the office at the time. At least 2 of the self-immolators here in America were women.

 

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/3476#:~:text=The%20venerable%20Buddhist%20monk%20Thich,repression%20of%20the%20Buddhist%20religion.
 

Mar 1, 2024 - 7:21:24 AM
Players Union Member

rinemb

USA

16241 posts since 5/24/2005

Like many of you (I assume) I have had some fairly bad burns requiring a trip to the hospital, but they were localized. I cannot imagine being strong enough to light myself up for that kind of pain, exponentially greater, for several minutes. I am sure I would have to take a lot of drugs first, or be extremely mentally ill.

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