Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

283
Banjo Lovers Online


Page: 1  2   Last Page (2) 

Dec 30, 2023 - 2:56:07 AM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

17487 posts since 8/30/2006

Like Ovation guitars and gourd banjos, what are opinions about shape and how they get the most out of a musical instrument.
A printed resonator is totally possible.
But a molded material with strength should compete with the one pound weight of a rez and mounting hardware.

I recently saw Suhle Greg Wilson formerly of the Chocolate Drops and earlier group by the same people.  The drops name was a tacky gimmick by a "producer."

He has a thumb piano he uses with a top half of an 18" gourd.  He suspends the "resonator" around his neck with a string and then plays the thumb piano inside the gourd.  The resulting addition of volume is very impressive for such a low tech solution. 

It leads me to think that a rounded bottom resonator might be useful and lightweight.

Edited by - Helix on 12/30/2023 03:16:52

Dec 30, 2023 - 1:39:28 PM

5649 posts since 5/29/2011

It sounds like it would be hard to hold. It's a good idea to consider ergonomics as well as sound. I think that's why the Ovation guitar was not more popular.

Dec 30, 2023 - 1:54:49 PM
like this

martyjoe

Ireland

510 posts since 3/24/2020

When I worked as a recording studio engineer, the one guitar that I treaded coming into the studio was ovation! I remember discussing ovation guitars with a colleague she said “You can’t polish a turd”.

Dec 30, 2023 - 2:39:47 PM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

17487 posts since 8/30/2006

Ok nice to know those things

Jim Croce put a sheet of felt on the back of his

A gourd banjo has a rounded rez

I think a dished rez will have a little space in my curiosity

Dec 30, 2023 - 3:45:14 PM

5649 posts since 5/29/2011

quote:
Originally posted by Helix

Ok nice to know those things

Jim Croce put a sheet of felt on the back of his

A gourd banjo has a rounded rez

I think a dished rez will have a little space in my curiosity


If you can pull a Jim Croce and find a way to keep it from slipping in your lap then, by all means, try it. You can't know if it will work or not until you you do. Innovation is one of your specialties, Larry. If you try making a resonator that way I look forward to seeing the end result.

Dec 30, 2023 - 4:08 PM

256 posts since 4/3/2009

quote:
Originally posted by martyjoe

...I remember discussing ovation guitars with a colleague she said “You can’t polish a turd”.


With all due respect, this 'turd" sounds pretty polished to me... https://youtu.be/HfMGaqu6Z1M?t=74

Dec 31, 2023 - 2:15:24 AM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

17487 posts since 8/30/2006

Like Ovation guitars and gourd banjos, what are opinions about shape and how they get the most out of a musical instrument.

Some seem to express their own fear.

What if hyperbolic wasn't the case, what if it was parabolic?

Dec 31, 2023 - 4:14:30 AM

61941 posts since 12/14/2005

For starts, I think those little "DISH" tv antennas are parabolic.


You might check the junkyards and see if one is available, trim it to fit, and see if it sounds better.

I've got one, unused, on the roof HERE, but I don't feel like climbing up there to GET it.
(Just 'cuz I'm so dang GOOD-LOOKIN' don't mean I'm stoopid!)

Those aluminum "Snow Saucers" are also parabolic, but I suppose they are kind of RARE in Arizona's junkyards.

How about paper mache` , formed over a beach ball, and hardened with some kind of epoxy paint?

Or, lids from large cooking pots?

I've just started  a project of my own, which does not require a resonator, but I invite each and several of the thousands of OutHangers to experiment and report.

Dec 31, 2023 - 5:09:54 AM
like this

4762 posts since 9/7/2009

May be an image of guitar and text that says 'Me: "I'm looking for an acoustic guitar with clearly defined low end." Shop Employee: "Shh. Say no more." @blueslawyermemes'

Dec 31, 2023 - 9:09:13 AM
likes this

5649 posts since 5/29/2011

Marvin, that was the best post I've seen all year.

Jan 1, 2024 - 5:04:23 AM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

17487 posts since 8/30/2006

Thank you Marvin

Mike. Paper mache' was exactly what I was thinking of, thanks for contribution.

Early crash helmets were canvas over a mold with shellac in between

Edited by - Helix on 01/01/2024 05:07:04

Jan 3, 2024 - 9:59:55 PM

2515 posts since 2/7/2008

I recall that Ovation guitars has a strip of rubber-like tape on the waist to keep the guitar from scooting off your leg.

Using a strap would work too.

Do tell - what do you think the result would be of such a deep resonator?

Jan 4, 2024 - 4:01:42 AM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

17487 posts since 8/30/2006

Rims are 3" deep with the addition of a square sided rez.

The result I'm thinking of is fewer bank shots inside the banjo

And therefore more musical flow out of the back

Jan 4, 2024 - 4:32:12 AM
likes this

61941 posts since 12/14/2005

Really hard for the person BEHIND the banjo to tell how it sounds, out in FRONT.

If'n I was really concerned, I'd build a test rack, with an arm that would swing a plectrum across, to strum the strings ONCE and stop.
(Maybe pulled by a weight)
That way, each banjo would have exactly the same force applied to the strings
Record the sound on something like AUDACITY, and look at the squiggles.
Bigger squiggles = louder.

Same strings, same strum, same microphone, same distance head to mic, but different squiggles.

Not subjectivity, but Science!

Jan 4, 2024 - 5:22:21 AM
likes this

8211 posts since 9/21/2007

Helix , Hi Larry, I'm curious why you don't just make one (or several) examples and share your findings? Why all the cryptic talk and apples to oranges comparison to guitars (which are not banjos).

Build it, post it.

Looking forward to your findings.

Jan 4, 2024 - 1:56:04 PM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

17487 posts since 8/30/2006

Hi Larry, I'm curious why you don't just make one.

I think it's possible to have some discussion, if you don't mind, we'll just do that.

Jan 4, 2024 - 2:30:35 PM
likes this

15697 posts since 6/29/2005

quote:
Originally posted by Joel Hooks

Helix , Hi Larry, I'm curious why you don't just make one (or several) examples and share your findings? Why all the cryptic talk and apples to oranges comparison to guitars (which are not banjos).

Build it, post it.

Looking forward to your findings.


Joel, Agreed!  theoretical questions are great if they are being used as research to actually  build something. Otherwise they become a game of “Why don’t you, yes, but”which is fun for those who want to play.

The idea of a bowl-shaped resonator  is certinly nothing new, and I would like to hear some example of one compared to a normal one.

Jan 5, 2024 - 4:57:06 AM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

17487 posts since 8/30/2006

The idea of a bowl-shaped resonator is certinly nothing new, and I would like to hear some example of one compared to a normal one.

If it's nothing new then I wold like to hear something myself.

I think it's ok to have general discussion.  If one thinks there is cryptic talk, that is opinion and free to express.

We've heard you guys ring in, now let others have their say.

Jan 5, 2024 - 6:01:05 AM

8211 posts since 9/21/2007

Clifford Essex offered a convex resonator, while fragile in construction, they worked well.






Jan 5, 2024 - 7:38:56 AM
like this

RBuddy

USA

1795 posts since 7/2/2007

Well, most acoustic guitars are "radiused" or domed or rounded to a fashion, as are fiddles and other instruments. Difference being they have a sound hole or ports on the top to let out sound waves. Ovations combined the sides and backs into a one piece shape that was easy to mold, and ease of molding may have been the key design element.

Joel's Essex convex res is a shape that theoretically would direct banjo sound from the head to the outlet space, gap, around the rim.

Whether it can result in something measurable and worth the effort should be the question. It seems obvious a reso domed in or with a cone shaped interior would probably have more chance at a beneficial effect on a banjo if volume is the goal.

A rimless reso domed in toward the head might be fun to try if you have the need or desire to experiment. As Joel points out, it already has been done to an extent.

I'm not even sure what the mission is here? More volume, better tone, easier to make, lighter, just something to talk about on a winter day, or if there is a problem to solve? And could humans hear the difference. Louder isn't always better.

Maybe you could heat up old bluegrass LPs on a ring till they form a dome and use that for a reso, they already have a gazillion grooves or "fresnel ledges", you could test 2 theories at one time. winkJust kidding and having fun, of course. We need more fun around here don't we? There was way more fun had here a decade ago, everything doesn't have to be taken seriously because some of it just can't be!

Happy New Year!

Edited by - RBuddy on 01/05/2024 07:47:23

Jan 5, 2024 - 7:59:39 AM

15697 posts since 6/29/2005

quote:
Originally posted by RBuddy

Well, most acoustic guitars are "radiused" or domed or rounded to a fashion, as are fiddles and other instruments. Difference being they have a sound hole or ports on the top to let out sound waves. Ovations combined the sides and backs into a one piece shape that was easy to mold, and ease of molding may have been the key design element.

Joel's Essex convex res is a shape that theoretically would direct banjo sound from the head to the outlet space, gap, around the rim.

Whether it can result in something measurable and worth the effort should be the question. It seems obvious a reso domed in or with a cone shaped interior would probably have more chance at a beneficial effect on a banjo if volume is the goal.

A rimless reso domed in toward the head might be fun to try if you have the need or desire to experiment. As Joel points out, it already has been done to an extent.

I'm not even sure what the mission is here? More volume, better tone, easier to make, lighter, just something to talk about on a winter day, or if there is a problem to solve? And could humans hear the difference. Louder isn't always better.

Maybe you could heat up old bluegrass LPs on a ring till they form a dome and use that for a reso, they already have a gazillion grooves or "fresnel ledges", you could test 2 theories at one time. winkJust kidding and having fun, of course. We need more fun around here don't we? There was way more fun had here a decade ago, everything doesn't have to be taken seriously because some of it just can't be!

Happy New Year!


While we are waiting for the others to have their say, which will surely come in good time,  I suspect this thread was created—the mission,as you say, more to start a discussion about ledging the inner sidewalls of resonators or actually adding reflectors into the sound cavity than to learn about bowl-shaped resonators.  This is not a new idea.
 
Resonators do not resonate—they reflect— they are like the back of a guitar, as you point out.


That "half-bagel" configuration Joel shows is one of the only ones that makes any sense if the idea is to alter the basic 36"-42" inner concave radius used on familiar resonators so that they reflect toward the gap between the rim and resonator.  Let’s assume (better yet, agree) that the energy from the strings is projected down from the head and bridge and not created by the rim. The sound is going to bounce in some direction, and the resonator might determine the path, which with a bowl-shaped reflector, would be back into the center. You probably want the sound to be projected towards the outside of the rim/resonator where there is an open space, not the center.  The Clifford Essex piece you show does just that— the convex shape is much more directed than a bowl shaped one would be.

Edited by - Ken LeVan on 01/05/2024 08:04:58

Jan 6, 2024 - 5:17:23 AM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

17487 posts since 8/30/2006

I see at least some thought has been given.

Jan 6, 2024 - 6:34:27 AM
like this

15697 posts since 6/29/2005

A bowl-shaped resonator  looks very nice, and you don't need binding along the bottom edge because there is no sharp edge.  Actually you don't need binding at all.

I made a couple of "shallow-dome" ones years ago to achieve a more contemporary or Danish modern look, with rounded edges, splines and bookmatched figured cherry triangles and the inside was rounded,  but  I deliberately made the outside have a “bump” so it looked more like a normal resonator (which I wouldn't do next time).    It wasn't a true dome-shape.

FWIW , it sounded perfectly OK.  I would make another one if it was something that agreed with that particular banjo.

I think there's a video of it floating around somewhere.

Edited by - Ken LeVan on 01/06/2024 06:35:31

Jan 7, 2024 - 3:35:06 AM
Players Union Member

Helix

USA

17487 posts since 8/30/2006

Great, not quite the hyperbola I was thinking of, but a nice rez just the same.

Jan 7, 2024 - 2:47 PM
likes this

AGACNP

USA

602 posts since 10/12/2011

quote:
Originally posted by Ken LeVan

A bowl-shaped resonator  looks very nice, and you don't need binding along the bottom edge because there is no sharp edge.  Actually you don't need binding at all.

I made a couple of "shallow-dome" ones years ago to achieve a more contemporary or Danish modern look, with rounded edges, splines and bookmatched figured cherry triangles and the inside was rounded,  but  I deliberately made the outside have a “bump” so it looked more like a normal resonator (which I wouldn't do next time).    It wasn't a true dome-shape.

FWIW , it sounded perfectly OK.  I would make another one if it was something that agreed with that particular banjo.

I think there's a video of it floating around somewhere.


As a woodworker, I absolutely love the look of this!

How have the ones you made held up?  The wedge shaped pieces have the appearance of being quarter sawn, but I'd imagine expansion and contraction over time could spell potential for early demise...

And perhaps the same potential for one truly bowl shaped?

For a true bowl shaped resonator, would lap/holding stability and also the extra distance required to reach the fretboard and picking are be potential defeaters of this design? Of course, this would be dependent on the diameter/radius...

Edited by - AGACNP on 01/07/2024 14:52:27

Jan 7, 2024 - 3:08:45 PM
likes this

Brett

USA

2619 posts since 11/29/2005
Online Now

I think bowl shaped fiberglass might be easy to cast and finish.

Page: 1  2   Last Page (2) 

Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Privacy Consent
Copyright 2024 Banjo Hangout. All Rights Reserved.





Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.453125