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Dec 3, 2023 - 6:13:02 PM
128 posts since 6/6/2010

I have broken 3 original brackets from my TB3 1926. The photo shows the original on the right. The banjo doesn't have a solid tension hoop but rather it's grooved in the centre and the hook sits in that. The replacements I bought (on left of the photo) have a larger hook and also the flat part just below is about 1/8 inch shorter on the replacement. The result is, beyond very basic tension the hook slips out of the groove on the hoop. Would anyone have any similar original or repro parts for sale?

Thanks.

Sam


 

Dec 4, 2023 - 5:45:27 AM
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Players Union Member

Eric A

USA

1828 posts since 10/15/2019

I think it's the same hook as on shoe bracket TB-1's up through about 1928. So if guys have cut those rims for a flathead, and then also converted to one piece flange, there must be a lot of those hooks sitting around in parts boxes.

Also, I think, same hook as on a Kalamazoo through the 1930's. Here's a guy on ebay parting out some Kalamazoo hooks. I bought a couple. They are not pretty, but they might work.  Might have to put a little bend into them, just like that one of yours, to get things to fit just right.




 

Edited by - Eric A on 12/04/2023 05:47:59

Dec 4, 2023 - 8:23:01 AM
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RioStat

USA

6214 posts since 10/12/2009

Sam Morrow,  I have a handful of these laying around somewhere, I'll dig thru my spare parts this evening.

Like Eric says, the hooks I have are off of prewar TB1's and Kalamazoos, but they're the same hooks.

Just for reference, where are you located ?  I'm not messing around with International Shipping anymore.....if you're in the US, the hooks will be Merry Christmas for you !

Dec 4, 2023 - 8:32:46 AM

Brett

USA

2576 posts since 11/29/2005

In the meantime, before you get some good used originals, you can probably bend the replacement ones that don’t fit. I bend tension hooks with two pairs of channel lock pliers close to each other and just slowly barely flex until you get the curve you need. I’m sure there are better ways, but that works for me. If you’re worried about your plating, put something around your tension hook (don’t know, maybe tape) and bend away!

Dec 4, 2023 - 9:11 AM

128 posts since 6/6/2010

quote:
Originally posted by RioStat

Sam Morrow,  I have a handful of these laying around somewhere, I'll dig thru my spare parts this evening.

Like Eric says, the hooks I have are off of prewar TB1's and Kalamazoos, but they're the same hooks.

Just for reference, where are you located ?  I'm not messing around with International Shipping anymore.....if you're in the US, the hooks will be Merry Christmas for you !


That's great news!  Thanks very much.  I'll DM you.

 

Sam

Dec 4, 2023 - 9:28:35 AM

128 posts since 6/6/2010

quote:
Originally posted by Brett

In the meantime, before you get some good used originals, you can probably bend the replacement ones that don’t fit. I bend tension hooks with two pairs of channel lock pliers close to each other and just slowly barely flex until you get the curve you need. I’m sure there are better ways, but that works for me. If you’re worried about your plating, put something around your tension hook (don’t know, maybe tape) and bend away!


Thanks brother.  I did the same thing with the replacements but even then the hook part is too large.  I'm worried of stripping the flange groove.  At the moment it's tight enough to do something.  I like a very tight head so I need something I can crank.  I don't know if the ones on mine are actually originals.  If they are they're the best part of 100 years old!

Edited by - Sam Morrow on 12/04/2023 09:30:49

Dec 4, 2023 - 10:37:02 AM

Brett

USA

2576 posts since 11/29/2005

Hey, if you’re only using til you get proper replacement, go ahead and break out a file. You’ll likely never use them again, replacements are inexpensive, and you can likely make them work fine. Don’t worry how they look, they’re only temporary til you collect factory replacements, and you will.

Dec 4, 2023 - 11:44:33 AM
Players Union Member

Emiel

Austria

10396 posts since 1/22/2003

I, too, replaced some hooks on my 1926 TB-3 (grooved tension-hoop, ball-bearing tonering) and ordered them from Elderly. They worked fine, but that was years ago:
 

http://elderly.com/products/banjo-flat-hook-nut

Edited by - Emiel on 12/04/2023 11:45:01

Dec 4, 2023 - 4:27:07 PM

6165 posts since 12/20/2005

Just curious, how tight do you like to go ?

Dec 5, 2023 - 7:26:29 AM

128 posts since 6/6/2010

quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R

Just curious, how tight do you like to go ?


I've tried tuning the head but I can't for the life of me hear the note.  I get it as tight as I can until the brackets start squeaking.

Dec 5, 2023 - 1:31:13 PM
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6165 posts since 12/20/2005

I’ve never got the hang of tuning a head by its pitch.
Have you ever tried using a drum dial?
It’s not the end all, be all for tightening a head, but it is practical as a means to achieving accurate , uniform tightness as a starting place.

Dec 6, 2023 - 8:07:57 AM

128 posts since 6/6/2010

quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R

I’ve never got the hang of tuning a head by its pitch.
Have you ever tried using a drum dial?
It’s not the end all, be all for tightening a head, but it is practical as a means to achieving accurate , uniform tightness as a starting place.


Yes funnily enough I just bought one.  The head on mine seems remarkably consistent - 94/95.  

Dec 6, 2023 - 9:22:42 AM

6165 posts since 12/20/2005

You were not kidding. That is tight !

Dec 8, 2023 - 7:45:51 AM
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Eric A

USA

1828 posts since 10/15/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Sam Morrow
quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R

I’ve never got the hang of tuning a head by its pitch.
Have you ever tried using a drum dial?
It’s not the end all, be all for tightening a head, but it is practical as a means to achieving accurate , uniform tightness as a starting place.


Yes funnily enough I just bought one.  The head on mine seems remarkably consistent - 94/95.  


Wow, that is tight!  Few guys go over 92, from what I see on the hangout.   No wonder you are breaking hooks.  But I'm surpised you don't bust more heads.

Dec 8, 2023 - 8:29:15 AM

128 posts since 6/6/2010

quote:
Originally posted by Eric A
quote:
Originally posted by Sam Morrow
quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R

I’ve never got the hang of tuning a head by its pitch.
Have you ever tried using a drum dial?
It’s not the end all, be all for tightening a head, but it is practical as a means to achieving accurate , uniform tightness as a starting place.


Yes funnily enough I just bought one.  The head on mine seems remarkably consistent - 94/95.  


Wow, that is tight!  Few guys go over 92, from what I see on the hangout.   No wonder you are breaking hooks.  But I'm surpised you don't bust more heads.


I don't think that's the problem.  The brackets broke awhile ago when the head was looser.  2 broke at the screw part and the screw thread hadn't run out.  I think there may have been rust on the screw.  Remember if they're original, they're nearly a century old.   I have always tuned the head by pushing down on the centre of the head with both thumbs with the bridge off.  I get a good idea of the tension.  At present there's a very slight amount of give.  As it's an archtop I wonder if the drum dial reads different to a flat head?  I've never broken a head.

Ralph's philosophy was get them as tight as you can without busting the head.

Edited by - Sam Morrow on 12/08/2023 08:32:53

Dec 8, 2023 - 8:54:36 AM
Players Union Member

Eric A

USA

1828 posts since 10/15/2019

quote:
Originally posted by Sam Morrow
quote:
Originally posted by Eric A
quote:
Originally posted by Sam Morrow
quote:
Originally posted by Leslie R

I’ve never got the hang of tuning a head by its pitch.
Have you ever tried using a drum dial?
It’s not the end all, be all for tightening a head, but it is practical as a means to achieving accurate , uniform tightness as a starting place.


Yes funnily enough I just bought one.  The head on mine seems remarkably consistent - 94/95.  


Wow, that is tight!  Few guys go over 92, from what I see on the hangout.   No wonder you are breaking hooks.  But I'm surpised you don't bust more heads.


I don't think that's the problem.  The brackets broke awhile ago when the head was looser.  2 broke at the screw part and the screw thread hadn't run out.  I think there may have been rust on the screw.  Remember if they're original, they're nearly a century old.   I have always tuned the head by pushing down on the centre of the head with both thumbs with the bridge off.  I get a good idea of the tension.  At present there's a very slight amount of give.  As it's an archtop I wonder if the drum dial reads different to a flat head?  I've never broken a head.

Ralph's philosophy was get them as tight as you can without busting the head.


Good point about drum dial readings on an arch top.  Hadn't thought about that, or read much about it either.  Makes sense maybe higher drum dial readings  are "normal".

Edited by - Eric A on 12/08/2023 08:56:49

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