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Nov 1, 2023 - 7:22:41 AM
301 posts since 8/10/2006

I paid to have my ad featured for 2 months, but it’s hasn’t been featured at all.

Nov 1, 2023 - 8:15:32 AM
Players Union Member

Texasbanjo (Moderator)

USA

29828 posts since 8/3/2003

It's probably there. It does take a little while to go through all the featured ads. Check back, wait for the ads to roll by and you'll see yours.

Nov 1, 2023 - 8:28:34 AM

598 posts since 7/28/2016

I'm assuming you are talking about the "Crafters". I just watched "all" the featured adds and I didn't see it.

Nov 1, 2023 - 8:45:49 AM

301 posts since 8/10/2006

Yea I’ve watched it many times over but haven’t seen it at all. Yes the Crafters.

Nov 1, 2023 - 10:11:13 AM

schlange (Administrator)

USA

6051 posts since 1/20/2003

This question pops up from time to time. The scroller of featured ads picks 40 random featured ads to display each time the page loads. So you may not see yours, but rest assured it's showing up just as much as everyone else's.

We keep it to 40 to keep page load times fast.

Nov 1, 2023 - 11:14:42 AM

Alex Z

USA

5738 posts since 12/7/2006

And my perspective is the same as before:

  -- The sampling cannot be with the full set of ads each time a sample is drawn.  This is called sampling "with replacement."  The resulting probability distribution over time will be that some ads will be picked a lot, and some will be picked very little.  That's the way sampling with replacement works, probabilistically.

     The concept that over many samples of 40 ads that each ad will be selected the same number of times may seem intuitive, but it is not correct.

  -- The sampling of the 40 should be done "without replacement".  This means that for each succeeding rounds of sampling, the ads that have been selected previously are not included in set of ads to be selected from.  You do this until all the ads have been selected once.  Then start over with the full set.

    Using sampling without replacement, over many samples of 40, each ad will be selected the same number of times (although the order in which the 40 will appear can be different).

Hope this helps.

Nov 1, 2023 - 11:40:43 AM

KCJones

USA

2862 posts since 8/30/2012

Alex Z The issue you bring up is a fairly basic RNG concept that's taught in all introductory programming courses. It was taught in my 8th grade Visual Basic course. I would be surprised if Eric is using an unrandomized RNG with replacement, especially for a paid service. Although to be fair, I've seen some pretty bad implementations of RNG in high-level applications (e.g. the 'shuffle' function in GM/ACDelco stereos that will repeat the same 40 songs in a 1000 song playlist)

There are probably thousands of different ways to generate a random list of 40 featured listings for this situation. Perhaps schlange could explain the method he uses, and it would put the issue to bed.

Edited by - KCJones on 11/01/2023 11:45:49

Nov 1, 2023 - 12:10:26 PM

1623 posts since 1/9/2012

A huge percentage of current ads come from banjowarehouse.com -- thereby reducing the visibility of individual listings from individual sellers. I presume they pay their fee. What if other commercial dealers followed suit?

Nov 1, 2023 - 12:42:57 PM

1534 posts since 11/10/2022

quote:
Originally posted by 5331glenn

I paid to have my ad featured for 2 months, but it’s hasn’t been featured at all.


 I see your add on page one everytime I look.  I never see randomized adds though.  Wasnt aware they were supposed to be.

I always sort on date updated.  Maybe that kills it?  Or is this post about what appears on the homepage ?  (whicn i never pay attention to)

Nov 1, 2023 - 1:50:11 PM
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schlange (Administrator)

USA

6051 posts since 1/20/2003

quote:
Originally posted by KCJones

Alex Z The issue you bring up is a fairly basic RNG concept that's taught in all introductory programming courses. It was taught in my 8th grade Visual Basic course. I would be surprised if Eric is using an unrandomized RNG with replacement, especially for a paid service. Although to be fair, I've seen some pretty bad implementations of RNG in high-level applications (e.g. the 'shuffle' function in GM/ACDelco stereos that will repeat the same 40 songs in a 1000 song playlist)

There are probably thousands of different ways to generate a random list of 40 featured listings for this situation. Perhaps schlange could explain the method he uses, and it would put the issue to bed.


We don't just randomly pick 40 classifieds... although that's the way I explain it to keep things simple.

We track how often each ad is displayed in the featured scroller (thousands of times each day, BTW), and pick those displayed the least to be displayed next. So the number of times each ad shows up daily is basically the same across all featured ads.

Nov 1, 2023 - 4:02:37 PM

Alex Z

USA

5738 posts since 12/7/2006

How many ads are we talking about that have enrolled in the scrolling feature?

Nov 1, 2023 - 4:18:17 PM

Alex Z

USA

5738 posts since 12/7/2006

Random number generator is not the difficulty.  Rather the question is how the RNG is applied to the situation at hand. 
 

It appears that the selections are not random -- which is ok given the explanation of the actual selection process and the goal of equal number of appearances -- although the order of appearance of the selected ads may have a random characteristic. 

Nov 2, 2023 - 9:14:21 AM

schlange (Administrator)

USA

6051 posts since 1/20/2003

Right now, on Banjo Hangout, there are 149 active classified ads that have been upgraded to "featured" and include at least one photo. So that's the pool we draw from.

On each page load we pick 40 with the lowest views on the day, randomize their order, then display that set.

Nov 2, 2023 - 10:17:52 AM
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Alex Z

USA

5738 posts since 12/7/2006

That makes sense.  

So roughly once every four loads -- if "loads" mean displays of 40 in the scrolling bar -- 5331glenn should see his ad rolling by.  5331glenn:  Are you seeing that?

 

Question:  Exactly what does "40 with the lowest views on the day" mean?  Does someone have to actually  click on the scrolling ad to be counted as a "view," or is it that just the appearance of an ad in the string of 40 loaded ads counts as a "view."

Details!  Details!  No more simplifications.  smiley   The BHO participants can understand the complete explanation.

Edited by - Alex Z on 11/02/2023 10:20:02

Nov 2, 2023 - 11:21:06 AM

KCJones

USA

2862 posts since 8/30/2012

I just refreshed the main BHO page 12 times and the banjo in question was included on the featured scroll 4 times.

One thing to note, is that of the 40 ads on the scroll, not all of them are shown on the page right away. On my screen/resolution, only 9 of them actually are shown on the page. You have to linger on the page for quite some time to actually see all the ads as they scroll by, and most people are probably not staying on a single page for very long. But, because the order is random, and the selection is weighted so all are included an equal amount, it ultimately works out to them all being shown equally.

In any case, I don't think the ad scroll is a big selling point of a featured listing. It's probably the least impactful part of a featured ad. The big part of featured ads is that they show up at the top of all search results, you get larger thumbnails and bigger text, you get a bolded sub-header in your ad, and the ad is promoted on the banjobarn and banjobuyer sites. The scroll feature is just a tiny bonus compared to all the other stuff.

Nov 2, 2023 - 11:24:52 AM
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schlange (Administrator)

USA

6051 posts since 1/20/2003

quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z

That makes sense.  

So roughly once every four loads -- if "loads" mean displays of 40 in the scrolling bar -- 5331glenn should see his ad rolling by.  5331glenn:  Are you seeing that?

Question:  Exactly what does "40 with the lowest views on the day" mean?  Does someone have to actually  click on the scrolling ad to be counted as a "view," or is it that just the appearance of an ad in the string of 40 loaded ads counts as a "view."

Details!  Details!  No more simplifications.  smiley   The BHO participants can understand the complete explanation.


A "view" in this case means it was included in the 40-item scroller.

Nov 2, 2023 - 12:02:27 PM
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301 posts since 8/10/2006

Thanks everyone I am seeing it now and have a better understanding of how it works.

Nov 2, 2023 - 12:57:23 PM

Alex Z

USA

5738 posts since 12/7/2006

quote:
Originally posted by schlange
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z

That makes sense.  

So roughly once every four loads -- if "loads" mean displays of 40 in the scrolling bar -- 5331glenn should see his ad rolling by.  5331glenn:  Are you seeing that?

Question:  Exactly what does "40 with the lowest views on the day" mean?  Does someone have to actually  click on the scrolling ad to be counted as a "view," or is it that just the appearance of an ad in the string of 40 loaded ads counts as a "view."

Details!  Details!  No more simplifications.  smiley   The BHO participants can understand the complete explanation.


A "view" in this case means it was included in the 40-item scroller.


Perfect. Virtually equivalent to sampling without replacement. Now all is known. 
 

Thanks for the prompt explanations. 

Nov 9, 2023 - 8:47:31 PM

1623 posts since 1/9/2012

I just counted 26 out of the 40-item scroller as listings from banjobuyer.com.

Nov 9, 2023 - 9:16:41 PM

schlange (Administrator)

USA

6051 posts since 1/20/2003

quote:
Originally posted by davidppp

I just counted 26 out of the 40-item scroller as listings from banjobuyer.com.


BanjoBuyer.com is just another website (run by me) displaying the banjos currently for sale here in the Hangout. So yea, that would make sense. ??

Nov 9, 2023 - 9:32:33 PM

1623 posts since 1/9/2012

schlange -- My mistake. The 26 were from banjowarehouse.com. (I know about banjobuyer and trhe BHO conection; it's a useful listing.)

Edited by - davidppp on 11/09/2023 21:33:41

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