Just one of those things that maybe only time and continuous practice will cure. To make it fun try learning Allen Shelton's Shelton Special. Thats how i got it down. My finger tends to come off the head when i grab that inside roll .at least it did when i first learned it. 

https://youtu.be/pQi_zbueCZY

The very end of Bela Flecks texas bar b que 

Has a nice inside roll chime. Fun to do

I agree with Gary: practice, practice, practice!!! The more you play that roll, the easier (hopefully) it will be.

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Originally posted by Bill H

I have been working on fiddle tunes and melodic style. One of the things I have the most trouble with is an inside roll. Some days it will be smooth and effortless, and then I will hit long stretches of complete ineptness. I try tweaking my middle finger pick in subtle ways--longer, shorter, more bend, less bend. Anyone have any tips to share?

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My first foray into the "inside roll" was Alan Mundes Peaches and Cream. As a bonus, it also has some isolated single string passages, which is now helping me on a few fiddle tune passages.

 After about a year of playing it in, it's now fairly effortless if I don't kick it off too fast.

All that to say: slow it down until its smooth and in time with the rest of the piece. Speed eventually happens.

Other than Allen's inside rolls it's a fairly simple song to tab out....Jack

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Originally posted by Bill H

I have been working on fiddle tunes and melodic style. One of the things I have the most trouble with is an inside roll. Some days it will be smooth and effortless, and then I will hit long stretches of complete ineptness. I try tweaking my middle finger pick in subtle ways--longer, shorter, more bend, less bend. Anyone have any tips to share?

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Thanks Gary,

Thanks for the link. Maybe I'll take a shot at it this weekend....Jack

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Originally posted by stanleytone

Just one of those things that maybe only time and continuous practice will cure. To make it fun try learning Allen Shelton's Shelton Special. Thats how i got it down. My finger tends to come off the head when i grab that inside roll .at least it did when i first learned it. 

https://youtu.be/pQi_zbueCZY

The very end of Bela Flecks texas bar b que 

Has a nice inside roll chime. Fun to do

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Took me about me about 30 years--and a small jar of ruined bent picks and still not perfect--Alan is said to wear his picks sideways--
there is one lick that gets passed around that mimics the fiddles double shuffle sound --It can be tied into many closed positions I use it here at about the 48 mark--I don't say it to be correct --but i use it in my solitude,a texas fiddle style tune-it is simply--TIM moved in and out the left hand notes make it musical--I think D-Dillard might have done this on Doug's tune but not sure

looks like I am hitting left hand chords C 2 --F6-G6

I can do them forward,, backwards is tough for me.
Here’s one I’m working on - Eddie Sheldon’s version of Sweet Georgia Brown

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Originally posted by Bill H

I have been working on fiddle tunes and melodic style. One of the things I have the most trouble with is an inside roll. Some days it will be smooth and effortless, and then I will hit long stretches of complete ineptness. I try tweaking my middle finger pick in subtle ways--longer, shorter, more bend, less bend. Anyone have any tips to share?

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More specifically to your question: I've been playing so long with my current pick configuration that I kept them the same (thinking I'd mess up some other aspect if I changed them) and simply slowed down to accommodate the new passages. I won't say it has been easy, but persistence has paid off.

That’s Eddie Shelton, not Sheldon, in my previous post.

Thanks for all of your ideas and suggestions. The inside roll I have been working on is over this A chord in Fire on the Mountain. I use the same roll at the end of the A part and for the C part.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill H

I have been working on fiddle tunes and melodic style. One of the things I have the most trouble with is an inside roll. Some days it will be smooth and effortless, and then I will hit long stretches of complete ineptness. I try tweaking my middle finger pick in subtle ways--longer, shorter, more bend, less bend. Anyone have any tips to share?

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I find them more user friendly the nearer I pick toward the neck.

I see my wrist straightening out a bit when I do that and for some reason this flows better for me with melodic fiddletunes.I like the tone better up there,too.

Salt Creek (capo 2) and Whiskey Before Breakfast (D no capo/7-9 inside/out roll) are recommended

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Originally posted by Bill H

Thanks for all of your ideas and suggestions. The inside roll I have been working on is over this A chord in Fire on the Mountain. I use the same roll at the end of the A part and for the C part.

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I'd be tempted to play the last two eighth notes on the first line both with the Thumb which then would eliminate the need for the inside roll. And the 6 on the 4th string following the 7 on the 4th string, I'd probably try to get by by just making a pull-off or slide. But then I wouldn't learn proper technique, would I?

Nothing "proper" about inside rolls.They just open up a whole world of choices.

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Originally posted by phb

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill H

Thanks for all of your ideas and suggestions. The inside roll I have been working on is over this A chord in Fire on the Mountain. I use the same roll at the end of the A part and for the C part.

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I'd be tempted to play the last two eighth notes on the first line both with the Thumb which then would eliminate the need for the inside roll. And the 6 on the 4th string following the 7 on the 4th string, I'd probably try to get by by just making a pull-off or slide. But then I wouldn't learn proper technique, would I?

 

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Thanks for your feedback. This was the first tune I ever tabbed out playing in A with no capo. It took a bit of effort to get that roll smoothed out. Sometimes I get it and sometimes not. It is note for note with the fiddle--I look at things like this as exercises, since I am at a beginner/intermediate level and have always gravitated toward melodic arrangements. 

I haven't done anything melodic in A without capo yet. The little melodic playing I do relies heavily on the 5th string for changing between lower and higher positions. The standard g note works fine for that in G, C and D and their relative minors. But what would I do with the 5th string when playing in A? Tune to an A note? I guess this would tie a knot into my brain. I saw Bill Keith play in A with capo 2 and figured if he did that, why should I try without capo... 

I also consider myself a beginner/intermediate level player and agree with you that melodic playing is good right hand exercise.

Since Fire on the Mountain has the A and C parts in the key of A and the B part in D, having no capo made playing in D easier, so I really did the A part as an exercise, but it worked out. The fifth string was tuned up to A. I have a variant for the B part where this make the melody more accessible. I began to tab out June Apple (played in A) without a capo this morning. The thing that I have recently realized is that the capo does not change any of the chord positions up the neck. I took an online workshop with Bill Evans and he included some tunes in A played without capo. I never got to those tunes in the workshop material, but now that I have been exploring the idea, it is not as intimidating as I imagined.

don't hear it much and when I do it is bats fast--So If I worked it up again--I would keep that in mind--I also do things in A sometimes--But I used to have some fast G licks for this one--If I was forced to do yours I would try a good strong pull off instead of single string on the 7 down to 6 on the 4th string--it would have hole in the right hand pattern --at a good place--but that is just me and how my hands work==post it if you get it going--would love to see it

Phillip asked why--a sensible question-- an interesting answer
for me --on Bill's arrangement --is the available A chord melody notes -hitting on the beat but also coming up under the right hand thumbs turn--other reasons have come long- on tunes -A lot of times on new tunes I try changing keys in the preliminary to find the easiest way

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Originally posted by steve davis

Nothing "proper" about inside rolls.They just open up a whole world of choices.

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Couldn't agree more.

Inside rolls don't come easy for die hard Scruggs pickers. Hangups over stuff like this, be it inside rolls, single string, whatever, will inhibit creativity. I made excuses & found workarounds for decades, until I became motivated enough to grit my teeth & work on them. Like anything else, there are no shortcuts. You have to put in your time, & keep a positive attitude.

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Originally posted by phb

I haven't done anything melodic in A without capo yet. The little melodic playing I do relies heavily on the 5th string for changing between lower and higher positions. The standard g note works fine for that in G, C and D and their relative minors. But what would I do with the 5th string when playing in A? Tune to an A note? I guess this would tie a knot into my brain. I saw Bill Keith play in A with capo 2 and figured if he did that, why should I try without capo... 

I also consider myself a beginner/intermediate level player and agree with you that melodic playing is good right hand exercise.

 

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My homepage "Kitchen Girl" is played in A out of open G tuning.

Playing in A this way feels very comfortable.

Inside rolls along with playing other keys out of open G become very simple once you've played them enough times...like anything else.

Hearing Tony Trischka play Salt Creek and seeing the tab in BNL got me determined to tackle the inside stuff.
Each month at it gets better and opens up so much more of the fretboard.

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Originally posted by steve davis

My homepage "Kitchen Girl" is played in A out of open G tuning.

I've been curious to hear you play for a long time and it never occurred to me to check your BHO homepage for recordings. How stupid of me...

Playing in A this way feels very comfortable.

Inside rolls along with playing other keys out of open G become very simple once you've played them enough times...like anything else.

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I totally depend on the open 5th string for switching between the low and higher positions. With the G note not having a place in A major, I wouldn't know how to deal with that. Perhaps some G-G# bluesy combination for the V chord (E major) would work? Kitchen Girl also has a bVII chord (G major) in it, right? Then, of course, the G note has some use.

The G chord in Kitchen Girl was a big reason for me choosing to try and learn it w/o a capo,but I soon found how easily the melody (banjo influenced) was found.The G note is what changes an A to an A7,Philipp.Very handy.

I get a lot of mileage in the keys of A and D (sans capo) with what I call the 7 and 9 inside out.

3@9/2@7.......1@7/5@9

In the B part (Am and E) in the first 2 frets I find open notes leading to the A minor and the E can be played by simply fretting 3@1 leaving all others open.It feels very safe.

I did add my own touch with a nervous F before the last E.I don't play everything in A or D without a capo,but whenever I've decided to work one up it's just been another set of habits to learn.I see each new tune as a new lesson in techniques as well as table of content.

I'm glad I decided to leave one of the posts in my home music that says it isn't me playing (maybe on Dixie Hoedown) I love reading that.I think that person was kicked out back then for stuff.

All my homepage tunes were recorded on my 2 conversion with a Gold Tone skin head and my Jones Acoustic Plus pickup plugged into the front of my computer with no preamp.