Page: 1 2
Guess I've been out of the loop, forgive me if this has been dicussed to death already.
Looking at the add for this month's drawing and see that GT is now calling their Banjos "Mastertone." I always thought Gold Tone had already established themselves as a solid company that produced a high quality instument at it's price point. Can't understand the need to latch on to a moniker associated with another maker.
Did they think it might fool someone into thinking they were buyng something else? Why not stand on your own reputation and create your own legacy. Stikes me as cheezy, I'm a little disapointed in them.
It has been discussed at length with various opinions. Many share yours.
When I refer to my Mastertone I would be pretty upset if someone thought I was talking about a Gold Tone.
It's interesting that Gibson never thought to trademark the "Mastertone" name, especially given their litigious nature regarding inlay and peghead shaps.
People don't complain about companies using the Whyte Laydie name, isn't that similar? It's a product line just the same.
Nobody seems to care about Deering using the Vega name.
This latest move from Gold Tone isn't surprising at all given their past behavior. At least they seem to be attempting to honor the old Mastertones. Although putting the Mastertone name on a mandolin seems a bit sacrilegious.
They're also using JD Crowe's name to market their OB-3. I wonder if they have permission?
I think people would be very surprised about whether the market is "tricked" into thinking Gold Tones are real Mastertones. Give it time. In 20 years, the conversation won't be "Gold Tone started using the Mastertone label", it will be "Gibson used to make Mastertones, and now Gold Tone does." Think about how people discuss Baldwin/Ode, or Fairbanks/Vega, or any number of other brand situations like this. Over time, things blend together, and nobody will really differentiate them except for collectors. Players won't care as much, especially young players that don't know the history except through 2nd and 3rd hand stories.
I know this has been discussed a lot before. But as a Gold Tone “Mastertone” owner, I don’t have any problem with it. I don’t know if any of us could honestly say had we been a mass banjo builder and the name was available, we wouldn’t have taken it.
I was actually discussing this with my brother yesterday. Gibson has not really done anything for the banjo world for about 14 years. Gold Tone on the other hand is really stepping up their game (in my opinion.) Gibson had about a century to trademark the name I think.
Like I said just my opinion anyway…
Yes, you're apparently out of the loop and this has been discussed to death.
Short version of the facts: Seeing that Gibson never trademarked the Mastertone name for banjos, Gold Tone filed a registration to claim the trademark. After a brief delay due to a challenge by Gibson -- subsequently withdrawn -- Gold Tone received the trademark and now owns it for use on banjos, mandolins and maybe other fretted instruments. Gold Tone came to some agreement with a Maryland company that has long owned the Mastertone trademark for violins and violas.
quote:
Originally posted by LukeLI don’t know if any of us could honestly say had we been a mass banjo builder and the name was available, we wouldn’t have taken it.
Greg Deering, whose company did take the Vega name when it was available, never took the Mastertone name.
Greg Rich, who acquired the Recording King name when it was available never took the Mastertone name.
Richard Keldsen, founder of Saga, maker of Gold Star, didn't take the name Mastertone to put on his Mastertone copies.
Those are the mass builders.
Among smaller quantity builders, Huber, Hatfield, Yates, Bishline, Nechville, and Sullivan could have all claimed the name Masertone, yet none did.
Why not?
Edited by - Old Hickory on 06/08/2023 19:26:58
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by LukeLI don’t know if any of us could honestly say had we been a mass banjo builder and the name was available, we wouldn’t have taken it.
Greg Deering, whose company did take the Vega name when it was available, never took the Mastertone name.
Greg Rich, who acquired the Recording King name when it was available never took the Mastertone name.
Richard Keldsen, founder of Saga, maker of Gold Star, didn't take the name Mastertone to put on his Mastertone copies.
Those are the mass builders.
Among smaller quantity builders, Huber, Hatfield, Yates, Bishline, Nechville, and Sullivan could have all claimed the name Masertone, yet none did.
Why not?
Probably because the name MasterTONE and GoldTONE seem to go together better than the others.
Edited by - banjoez on 06/08/2023 19:31:34
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by LukeLI don’t know if any of us could honestly say had we been a mass banjo builder and the name was available, we wouldn’t have taken it.
Greg Deering, whose company did take the Vega name when it was available, never took the Mastertone name.
Greg Rich, who acquired the Recording King name when it was available never took the Mastertone name.
Richard Keldsen, founder of Saga, maker of Gold Star, didn't take the name Mastertone to put on his Mastertone copies.
Those are the mass builders.
Among smaller quantity builders, Huber, Hatfield, Yates, Bishline, Nechville, and Sullivan could have all claimed the name Masertone, yet none did.
Why not?
Obviously I don’t know for sure, but my guess is that Gold Tone using the name is an attempt to get professionals to consider a Chinese built banjo. Those other names you mentioned are handmade American banjos that don’t need any marketing… I have personally heard of the above builders by word of mouth and not any “Mastertone” marketing. But it is definitely getting Gold Tone some attention. Just a guess!
I’m not a fan of gold tone. Matter as a fact I resent GT . I’m not sure why, really . Gibson just flat out dropped the ball or simply just didn’t care. That should have been apparent when the just QUIT making banjos. What were you thinking Gibson ? Now some body has what was yours. It shouldn’t bother me I admit. If Gibson don’t care why should I ? But I do. That being said GT hustling to get business. They are not a joke ! They put some effort in their products and they market themselves. They are getting great banjo players to sell and indorse their products. In 20 years Mastertones will be synonymous with GT. The old players that were and are still loyal to Gibson are slowly fading away .
Anyone who buys a GT Mastertone now will have a pre-war after the coming conflict with China.
quote:
Originally posted by banjoezProbably because the name MasterTONE and GoldTONE seem to go together better than the others.
So "Mastertone" never went well with "Gibson"?
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by banjoezProbably because the name MasterTONE and GoldTONE seem to go together better than the others.So "Mastertone" never went well with "Gibson"?
Nothing, and I mean nothing, will ever give the same kind of feeling to a banjo picker, that a prewar Mastertone gave to Earl/Don/Ralph/Sonny, etc,.
The true Mastertones will always be Gibsons.
They are in a class of their own. There is a reason why famous Mastertone-type builders try as hard as they can, to get "that sound" and the whole mystique behind prewar Gibsons.
Is Mastertone simply a generic term for a certain style of banjo the way that Kleenex is used to refer to any similar tissue?
quote:
Originally posted by Bill HIs Mastertone simply a generic term for a certain style of banjo the way that Kleenex is used to refer to any similar tissue?
Now that's an interesting point...
^^^ Pretty much what Old Hickory said, that's the entire episode in a sentence or two.
No matter what any of us may feel about this matter, the truth is GoldTone took the appropriate steps, legally and otherwise as far as I can tell, to properly secure the trademark, which Gibson challenged, then cut some sort of deal with GoldTone. All that was done through the appropriate channels and there is no subterfuge. GoldTone now owns the trademark.
What became glaringly obvious -- to me anyway -- through this entire thing (which has been discussed many times on BHO and I was a participant in some of those threads) is that Gibson users have far more dedication to the brand than Gibson does. Gibson demonstrated that clearly when they dumped banjos altogether, and again when they were just fine with letting the trademark be bought out, putting a nail in the future Gibson Mastertone coffin. There won't be any more made, and Gibson did this to itself.
Edited by - banjoy on 06/09/2023 05:50:42
Here's another thought:
Nobody seems to care that several domestic builders use the Gibson script on their pegheads, and use Gibson inlays and Mastertone name plates on their fretboards. Nobody seems to care that some resellers will even market these "replica"/"counterfeit" (depending on who you ask) banjos as actual Gibsons. There are several for sale on in the Classifieds, right now. And those banjos are built without permission or authority from the actual owner of the trademark. Nobody talks about how those builders are dishonest, or complain that they're diluting the Mastertone name. At least Gold Tone followed the legal process before they started making copies.
Honest question: Why is it okay for Huber, Hatfield, Smith, Neat, et al to use the Gibson and Mastertone names, but it's not okay for Gold Tone to do the same? What's the difference?
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by LukeLI don’t know if any of us could honestly say had we been a mass banjo builder and the name was available, we wouldn’t have taken it.
Greg Deering, whose company did take the Vega name when it was available, never took the Mastertone name.
Greg Rich, who acquired the Recording King name when it was available never took the Mastertone name.
Richard Keldsen, founder of Saga, maker of Gold Star, didn't take the name Mastertone to put on his Mastertone copies.
Those are the mass builders.
Among smaller quantity builders, Huber, Hatfield, Yates, Bishline, Nechville, and Sullivan could have all claimed the name Masertone, yet none did.
Why not?
Why would they?
All of those small quality builders (except for perhaps Nechville, I don't know anything about them) have turned out many counterfeit "Gibson" banjos complete with the Mastertone brand (from necks to full banjos). Why would they put themselves on the radar by filing any paperwork?
Gibson has abandoned the "Mastertone" trademark, as well as the banjo itself. Accordingly, I don't have a problem with Goldtone acquiring "Mastertone" as their own trademark. There's nothing illegal about it, but I don't see the efficacy in their having done so.
My understanding is -- and I am definitely open to corrections -- that most *reputable* modern makers won't use the Gibson name (and it only appears on the neck, after all) unless it's attached to a Gibson pot or the pot has some claim to Gibson lineage. I think there's an unwritten code of ethics, of sorts...
... but then, there will always be fake anything -- spark plugs, microphones, electronics of all kinds, not to mention a slew of fake Gibson guitars out there that can never be traced to their source. I just think in that regard, Gibson is not exempt from fakery.
So there's fakery, then there's honest use of the name and nameplate for restoration, conversion, and repair. For me that's the main difference. But I could be wrong...
Edited by - banjoy on 06/09/2023 07:28:01
I don't know what the big deal is with Gibson or Mastertone banjos anyway. They had a good run for a few years nearly 100 years ago, and they had a good run for a few years nearly 40 years ago. They haven't built a banjo in nearly two decades. Maybe 10 years total out of 100 years of banjo making, they managed to get it right. The rest of the time, they were building second rate products with poor quality control. Their entire value as a brand is based on rose-tinted nostalgia.
quote:
Originally posted by banjoyMy understanding is -- and I am definitely open to corrections -- that most *reputable* modern makers won't use the Gibson name (and it only appears on the neck, after all) unless it's attached to a Gibson pot or the pot has some claim to Gibson lineage. I think there's an unwritten code of ethics, of sorts...
... but then, there will always be fake anything -- spark plugs, microphones, electronics of all kinds, not to mention a slew of fake Gibson guitars out there that can never be traced to their source. I just think in that regard, Gibson is not exempt from fakery.
So there's fakery, then there's honest use of the name and nameplate for restoration, conversion, and repair. For me that's the main difference. But I could be wrong...
Your word not mine...
https://www.banjohangout.org/classified/99169
https://www.banjohangout.org/classified/99220 (I suppose the fragment of an Oriole rim makes this a conversion, but should the peghead not say "Oriole" then?)
https://www.banjohangout.org/classified/98782 (the seller seems to have posted photos to obscure what looks like "Gibson" when zoomed in + "Mastertone" block)
https://www.banjohangout.org/classified/98982
We had a recent discussion on counterfeit Gibson banjos being sold here and we were able to post links to listing after listing of fakes, counterfeits, and fantasy fakes until that discussion was locked.
Do they need both Gold tone and mastertone ? Why not supreme, super, ultra, platinum, or amazing tone? Or better yet how about deaf tone, mighty mighty boss tones . Meh!
How about Acetone?
Try our new Acetone banjo! It'll peel the paint off your walls!!
Edited by - KCJones on 06/09/2023 10:31:16
Joel Hooks LOL that's funny. I never look at classifieds. That's why I qualified my post -- twice -- that I could be wrong and was open to corrections. So don't get stuck on one word in my post if you are. Personally, I don't lose any sleep over this, and hope you don't either.
I don't think there are many fake OMEs, ODEs, Nechvilles, etc. I don't think anyone is going to make a fake GoldTone either. There are only fake Gibson and other high-end banjos because there's a market for them and a sucker is born every minute.
I had a Gold Tone bg 250 bought it used on ebay. It was o.k.but had neck issues and the thumb screws for the resinator and tuner screws all had phillips head grooves indtead of flatheads. Not a big deal I know but just did'nt seem right. I had to sell it to pay the electric bill after an illness. I can't believe how much they have gone up in price. I wouldn't complain if I won one though??.
Page: 1 2
Newest Posts
