A few weeks back I posted about how my tailpiece was all out of wack. I was able to adjust it for the most part. But something was still not right. Not too long ago I noticed that the neck is off a bit. If you look at the picture it is a bit off center. Someone mentioned on my last post that if this is the issue that I could be adjusted by loosening the hooks and turning the flange and hoop.
I am mechanically inclined, but is this something that is easy to do? So far the only thing I have ever done to a musical instrument is change the strings. I know that I would have to get a drum dial to adjust the head tension after the move.
I called a luthier I have used before, but he moved to Maine and is now an hour away from me. Plus I would kind of like to learn how to do some of this stuff mulyself.
Edited by - pmartin9363 on 06/03/2023 10:55:05
The simplest way to fix this is to use a small shim between the neck and the rim on the treble side. That will pull the neck back in line. It will take several tries to get it right. That is the simplest way, not the best way.
Ideally, it would be best to take the neck off and sand a little bit off the heel on the bass side. I don't know how comfortable you would be trying that. I don't know your skills as a wood worker but you do. If you think you could do it without disaster, have at it. If you wouldn't be comfortable going that route, use a shim.
One idea that comes to mind is that 'if,' the upper hole that the lag bolt goes through in the rim has any room at all you might could loosen the nut inside the rim on the neck side and see if you can move the neck any to get it centered and then see if you can tighten it back up without it pulling it off center again. Also, if the banjo plays and notes in tune, you are probably the only person who will ever notice this anomaly, but I am the same way; when I know something isn't right, it do tend to bug at me.
Bobby
"If you look at the picture it is a bit off center."
How do you tell it is off center in the picture? Is it because the neck is not centered between the hooks on the tension hoop on either side?
quote:
Originally posted by CullodenThe simplest way to fix this is to use a small shim between the neck and the rim on the treble side. That will pull the neck back in line. It will take several tries to get it right. That is the simplest way, not the best way.
Ideally, it would be best to take the neck off and sand a little bit off the heel on the bass side. I don't know how comfortable you would be trying that. I don't know your skills as a wood worker but you do. If you think you could do it without disaster, have at it. If you wouldn't be comfortable going that route, use a shim.
This approach will not begin to address the wonky geometry
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z"If you look at the picture it is a bit off center."
How do you tell it is off center in the picture? Is it because the neck is not centered between the hooks on the tension hoop on either side?
Yeah, that would be a hint.
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z"If you look at the picture it is a bit off center."
How do you tell it is off center in the picture? Is it because the neck is not centered between the hooks on the tension hoop on either side?
Yes, it is not centered on the gap in the ring. Also, not sure if this is noticeable in the picture, but the 5th string is a bit closed to the edge of this gap than the 1st string. It is also noticeable in the slot that is in the flange, where the gap is much larger on the 1st side of the neck than it is on the 5th sting side.
quote:
Originally posted by pmartin9363quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z"If you look at the picture it is a bit off center."
How do you tell it is off center in the picture? Is it because the neck is not centered between the hooks on the tension hoop on either side?
Yes, it is not centered on the gap in the ring. Also, not sure if this is noticeable in the picture, but the 5th string is a bit closed to the edge of this gap than the 1st string. It is also noticeable in the slot that is in the flange, where the gap is much larger on the 1st side of the neck than it is on the 5th sting side.
Problem solved. It is the flange and hoop that are not centered on the neck. Not the other way around. This is not uncommon.
Remedy is to loosen the bracket nuts, rotate the flange and hoop to the desired position, then tighten up.
Retightening means paying attention to the head tension before loosening, then get back to the same tension. Will let others advise on this, as it is an adjustment everyone has done or should learn to make.
Hope this helps.
Edited by - Alex Z on 06/03/2023 12:07:35
I would loosen everything off and then juggle it all into position before getting aggressive with the sand paper. You may well find that it’ll go nicely into place. Maybe the neck is tilted slightly plus the tension hoop is pulling one way, the hooks not pulling square, the co-ordinator rods contributing and so on.
By loosening the neck a bit, you could probably rotate the neck clockwise a tiny, tiny, tiny bit. The strings will move left a bit at the hoop. Only a thought in case the bass side of the fretboard is sitting a hair lower than the treble side where it meets the tension hoop
quote:
Originally posted by MikeSayrequote:
Originally posted by CullodenThe simplest way to fix this is to use a small shim between the neck and the rim on the treble side. That will pull the neck back in line. It will take several tries to get it right. That is the simplest way, not the best way.
Ideally, it would be best to take the neck off and sand a little bit off the heel on the bass side. I don't know how comfortable you would be trying that. I don't know your skills as a wood worker but you do. If you think you could do it without disaster, have at it. If you wouldn't be comfortable going that route, use a shim.This approach will not begin to address the wonky geometry
What would you suggest?
I would get a long straight edge, such as a yard stick. Center the edge of the stick on the neck, which should extend across the head to just over the coordinating rod exiting thru the rim. This should tell you whether the neck is tilted and in need of a shim or more drastic adjustment. If the neck is straight, then the tension hoop and (maybe) the flange need adjustment. If the neck is tilted, another adjustment could be those suggested by Martyjoe. Very quickly all of this will make the hour drive to your luthier far less of a burden. You may be mechanically inclined, but if you've never done more than change strings, proceed cautiously. I doubt you will need a drum dial at this point.
Edited by - deestexas on 06/03/2023 13:38:01
Make sure this is a tilted neck, and not a neck that's been mounted off center of the pot's centerline.
The third string is running very close to the center dots on the inlays. This neck is not far off. I've seen a lot worse. Can you nudge the tailpiece a hair to the bass side to get things to line up good enough to make you happy?
I think it's called "string line" It's a spec. banjo with QC and production quotas.
If you can't jiggle it into place, then I think the trebled shim is the best to correct things. credit card shims are perfect. They can be glued in place.
The holes they drill aren't known for being slotted.
The only slotted ones I have seen are on the Deering Boston.
It's ok to make the holes bigger but it won't cure the string line.
Edited by - Helix on 06/04/2023 10:34:58
quote:
Originally posted by pmartin9363
. . . the 5th string is a bit closed to the edge of this gap than the 1st string.
No. The 1st string (high D, right in the picture) is closer to the edge of the tension hoop notch than the 5th string (high G, left in picture).
Since the 3rd string seems to define a pretty good center line by going through the center of most of the inlays we see, I would be inclined to leave the neck alone at first and start by trying to move the tension hoop and flange as you have asked.
Is it easy? The tension hoop almost always. The flange, not always. Depends on how snug the fit. But I think this the thing to to try. Accept the neck as in a good way for now and try to move the hoop and flange in relation to it.
I have dealt with similar alignment issues. On one banjo, I finally realized the arc of the heel was cut askew. I believe I fixed this by shimming very slightly on one side of the heel.
quote:
Originally posted by Old Hickoryquote:
Originally posted by pmartin9363
. . . the 5th string is a bit closed to the edge of this gap than the 1st string.No. The 1st string (high D, right in the picture) is closer to the edge of the tension hoop notch than the 5th string (high G, left in picture).
Since the 3rd string seems to define a pretty good center line by going through the center of most of the inlays we see, I would be inclined to leave the neck alone at first and start by trying to move the tension hoop and flange as you have asked.
Is it easy? The tension hoop almost always. The flange, not always. Depends on how snug the fit. But I think this the thing to to try. Accept the neck as in a good way for now and try to move the hoop and flange in relation to it.
I have dealt with similar alignment issues. On one banjo, I finally realized the arc of the heel was cut askew. I believe I fixed this by shimming very slightly on one side of the heel.
Thanks Ken, I am always reverse the string numbers, to me the first string should be the closest since it is the closest to me.
Thanks everyone. Seems to me, based on responses, that it might be an easy fix, but maybe not. So, I am going to leave it to a pro. And, since it really is not a real big issue...I have no problems playing it...I am going to wait until I have owned the banjo about a year and have my luthier look at it when I have him do a set up for me.
I agree, I hate the " it wasn't like that 3 seconds ago."
Looking at your picture, I see the tension hoop is not centered to the neck. Hopefully that means the flange might need to be centered to the neck as well. Since the tailpiece hook goes through the flange, that affects how the tailpiece meets the neck straight on. If you haven’t changed hardware, then the holes drilled for the coordinator rods in the rim, should be properly lined up by the manufacturer, GoldTone. However, if once you have centered the tension hoop & flange, you still have issues, loosen the coordinator rod nuts (loosen the strings first ) and use your hands to pull the neck in the proper direction to meet your tailpiece in a straight line. Tighten the coordinator rod nuts and keep the new side angle you have just set as you tighten things up. You might also need to shift the tailpiece to the right or left. I have found that sometimes the tailpiece position is not exactly centered between the 2 tension hoop hook slots on each side of the tailpiece. It’s more important to get the tailpiece to center with the neck than to center the tailpiece between the hooks on each side of the tension hoop. I hope I have articulated this well enough to understand. The adjustments necessary can be done without a luthier or special tools.
