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So…any training tips on avoiding the head-scrape. It’s even more of an issue with the Pro-Pik style thumbpick that is metal, but the pick part is plastic, and where they join is a ridge, and that makes a worse sound than the head-scrape.
A lot of things have gotten better about my playing in the last three months - speed, clean-ness of push-offs, nice-hard hammers, slides held, tightness (fingers not flying around), noticing that I’ve got two fingers on the head (this happened on its own as other things got cleaned up), pulling licks together improvisationally - all little things that add up to better playing and a feeling that you are making progress —- but the thumbpick pick noise is an issue I would like to clean up.
I can go back to an all-plastic thumbpick, but I would prefer to stay with the Pro-Piks (and I use the Fred Kelly style in that is has short straight plastic end, not a broad/wide end.
I use the propik but I cut off about 1/8".
As a general observation, practicing playing really slow, crisp and controlled is the usual advice for reducing excess picking finger motions. My thumb seems better behaved than my index finger, but even my index finger has calmed down some with slow practice.
quote:
Originally posted by randybartlettI use the propik but I cut off about 1/8".
As a general observation, practicing playing really slow, crisp and controlled is the usual advice for reducing excess picking finger motions. My thumb seems better behaved than my index finger, but even my index finger has calmed down some with slow practice.
Thanks for your response - I cut mine off as well - almost a nub! Actually, for me, to play faster, I had to get compact in my picking hand - close to the strings and controlled - no flying index and middle. You are correct that if I slowed down could avoid the pick noise, but I am not willing to drop from 105BPM to 65 - I have to believe there is an alternative. The metal/plastic "joint ping" is another thing - I think that can be heard in the cacophony of banjo notes. I can fix that by going with an all plastic pick but the strings want to get under the curve, even with bending in hot water.
You could go to a taller bridge if your neck will adjust to accommodate it.
I used to use large thumbpicks, National or Dunlop. One day mine broke and I grabbed a medium Dunlop. A eureka moment, It fit tighter, didnt require trimming the tip or bending it tighter and greatly reduced head scratching.
I’m not going to be able to respond to posts today as I will be seeing:
Ricky Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder (Russ Carson)
Sister Sadie (Gena Britt)
The Del McCoury Band (Rob McCoury)
The Grascals (Kristin Scott Benson)
Steeldrivers (Richard Bailey)
:)
As far as dropping to 65 bpm, it's only for some private practice time; you still play songs at the speed you want.
If the joint is contacting the strings, I think it means that you cut too much off -or- your thumb is trained to get closer to the string than mine. (I got my propik in 2003 and I don't remember ever hitting that joint.)
If you'd be comfortable with it, you could post some video of your picking hand playing (from several angles). Maybe someone could observe something to explain all this.
Enjoy your shows! I went to see the Traveling McCourys about two weeks ago. They filled a club in Ann Arbor and acquitted themselves nicely
That metal to plastic joint is why I quit using my Blue Chip pick. Lately I’ve been using a 40 year old National that I found in a box of retired picks. I love it because the blade is short and wide and it seems to be made of a harder plastic so it doesn’t make the scratchy sounds I used to get from the Golden Gate ivoroids I used for years.
Practicing slowly is something most pros do,, esp. classical guitarists. All proper finger movements have to be ingrained. Unfortunately you are now ingraining poor thumb movements.
more arch in your wrist.Concentrate the area your fingertips attack the strings and minimize movement. I usually instruct students to place a coin on the table top and lay their hand flat and try to pick up the coin. Then arch the wrist and attempt to pick up the coin. Which is easier?
A careful polishing of the blade including its edges is a good place to start.
I use printer paper.
When I began playing I had the same issue. For a time it really frustrated me. Your fellow BHO members have offered some great advice. I finally got to the point where I decided that if I hit the head then so be it. Eventually as my technique improved the problem took care of itself. Just keep playing.
God Bless.
Years ago I had this brain wave and cranked up the armrest.
Putting it all the way up cured the problem completely and any banjo ever after that had 'the scratch' benefitted from the same treatment.
Edited by - RB-1 on 04/01/2023 13:23:00
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Originally posted by steve davisA careful polishing of the blade including its edges is a good place to start.
I use printer paper.
Printer paper??? I would not have guessed it is abrasive enough.
Before I left this morning I got out some earlier picks I’ve used, Dunlop mediums, which I had cut down and shaved. Of course, that solved the ‘joint” issue. I will work on keeping that thumb off the head.
Another factor maybe that I play a flat top downstairs and an arch top upstairs. The head is closer to the strings, so the likelihood of the pick contacting the head is greater. E.g. on the archtop, I can be touching the head with the pick, but the string does not get high enough on the pick to catch the joint.
Maybe I should just play the flatheads.
Also wondering if my ring and pinky are forming a strong enough base so that my thumbpick’s path is repeatable, I.e. my thumb may be repeating the same movement, but if my hand has rotated inward (due to a breakdown of the ring/pinky) that “same” movement scrapes the head.
Or maybe I overthink everything.
Edited by - gcpicken on 04/01/2023 20:48:47
May I assume that crancking up the armrest didn't cure it for you?
Hi Bruno,
I found that the only way or at least, one of the best ways to stop scraping the banjo head is to relax your right hand and not dig so deep...I teach my students that and it seems to work for them most of the time. It might also help with the problems with the anchored fingers on the head of the banjo. Yes, arching the wrist definitely helps I think...Jack
Edited by - Jack Baker on 04/02/2023 13:29:00
It has been a long time since I've had that problem & other than practice, I don't remember what, if anything, I may have done to correct it. Somewhere along the line, I kept increasing the bridge height to obtain more volume. For 20+ years I've been using the tallest Moon bridge available. My thumb picks are the old, cheap, Dunlops. I only trim thumb wrap. The business end takes care of itself. 
Although, come to think of it, Lincoln Hensley has a YouTube vid on trimming the thumb pick. And the first thing he does is snip about an 1/8th inch off the tip.
On one of the longer Deering Jens Kruger Masterclass Series videos, Jens speaks of a practice technique where he recommends picking something you've been playing for so long you don't even have to think about, as fast as possible, but very lightly. I don't remember why he suggested this technique. Having to do with speed, or maybe digging too deep into the strings? All I remember was, I tried it & concluded Jens was right.
quote:
Originally posted by RB-1May I assume that crancking up the armrest didn't cure it for you?
Hi Bruno - I was intrigued by your ingenuity on that approach, but I'm not ready for any adjustment to the armrest (or the bridge, as has been suggested. This is a "me" problem, not the instrument. I would just be hiding a technique flaw, that would probably crop up somewhere else, later. But I do appreciate suggestion, and will keep it in mind as I progress.
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Originally posted by monstertoneIt has been a long time since I've had that problem & other than practice, I don't remember what, if anything, I may have done to correct it. Somewhere along the line, I kept increasing the bridge height to obtain more volume. For 20+ years I've been using the tallest Moon bridge available. My thumb picks are the old, cheap, Dunlops. I only trim thumb wrap. The business end takes care of itself.
On one of the longer Deering Jens Kruger Masterclass Series videos, Jens speaks of a practice technique where he recommends picking something you've been playing for so long you don't even have to think about, as fast as possible, but very lightly. I don't remember why he suggested this technique. Having to do with speed, or maybe digging too deep into the strings? All I remember was, I tried it & concluded Jens was right.
I would guess that being able to play fast and soft (light), or fast and loud (hard), and being able to accent notes, and "shuffle" the timing, would mean that you have not just speed but control and feel, to wit - The Goal!
Time cures all.
Play every day.
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Originally posted by steve davisTime cures all.
Play every day.
Minimum 1.5 hr!
quote:
Originally posted by gcpickenquote:
Originally posted by steve davisTime cures all.
Play every day.Minimum 1.5 hr!
From the time dinner was over, until "lights out". Often longer.
quote:
Originally posted by monstertonequote:
Originally posted by gcpickenquote:
Originally posted by steve davisTime cures all.
Play every day.Minimum 1.5 hr!
From the time dinner was over, until "lights out". Often longer.
Next thing you know, its 3AM and you're just starting feel like King of the Banjo! And some weekends are endurance events. I'm sure the dog would move out if he could!
I believe I have this figured out. I am playing three different banjos, and the heights of the head to the strings is different on all three. The bridges are different heights, and the string height where the neck meets the pot is the same on two of them, but the height is shallower on the archtop. Because I mostly play the archtop, I wasn’t getting the little “ping” when that gets generated by the joint between the plastic and the metal, by a Pro-Pik (or similar picks) that have a Delrin pick (I use the very narrow “Kelly-type’ pick) attached to the metal. So the answer is three different thumbpicks.
That said, I ordered an Acri thumbpick model through Elderly instruments that appear to avoid the joint on the side of the pick that makes contact with the string. Assuming it avoids the joint ping, I will have to trim the picks differently for each banjo. But I’ll wait to we how the first one works out before I jump in on three.
Having screwed around with a lot of options with thumbpicks these last few days, I can say thwt, at least for me, the Kelly style Prok-Pik flies! Particularly for single string.
quote:
Originally posted by gcpickenI believe I have this figured out. I am playing three different banjos, and the heights of the head to the strings is different on all three. The bridges are different heights, and the string height where the neck meets the pot is the same on two of them, but the height is shallower on the archtop. Because I mostly play the archtop, I wasn’t getting the little “ping” when that gets generated by the joint between the plastic and the metal, by a Pro-Pik (or similar picks) that have a Delrin pick (I use the very narrow “Kelly-type’ pick) attached to the metal. So the answer is three different thumbpicks.
That said, I ordered an Acri thumbpick model through Elderly instruments that appear to avoid the joint on the side of the pick that makes contact with the string. Assuming it avoids the joint ping, I will have to trim the picks differently for each banjo. But I’ll wait to we how the first one works out before I jump in on three.
Having screwed around with a lot of options with thumbpicks these last few days, I can say thwt, at least for me, the Kelly style Prok-Pik flies! Particularly for single string.
You are working with apples & oranges. Take all three banjos to a competent set-up person & have the action set the same on each one. Same bridges & strings, yada, yada. Re-cut the neck @ the heel, if necessary. Do not tweak the coordinator rods to set the action! Doing so makes the tone ring fit uneven, resulting in loss of volume & tone.
Choosing picks is one thing, but unless you're working with a level playing field, (banjos) you have no base for comparison.
Hi monstertone Thank you for your response. I have the action the same on all three - 3/32 at 12th fret. I am able to handle simple things myself. I am fortunate that the action on all of them is easily adjustable with tiny tweaks of the truss rod. Also, there are no competent banjo luthiers prly w/in 200 miles.
Just FYI, the banjos are a brand new Nechville Vintage (which exceeds all expectations!), a Bishline Harvest model (3 years old and pretty perfect), and a 1927 TB4 5-string conversion restored by Steve Huber (new neck). The whole “coordinator rod” scares me a little, and I would definitely not tweak the coor rods on the 96 year old rim. They all play beautifully.
Edited by - gcpicken on 04/08/2023 10:44:09
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