Hi all - I have several banjos all with the same issue. I like my action at 3/32nds. As I have improved I am fretting the 5th string with my thumb (to add a 6th or 7th on the F-chord shape). I have spikes at 7 and 9 on all of them.
Issue: When I fret the 5th below the 9th fret, the note is dead from contacting the top of the spike.
1. There is no room to drive the spike in deeper, because the string won’t fit under the spike if I do that.
2. I don’t want to remove the spikes because then I will have holes in the fretboard.
3. I could file the tops off and drive them flat with the fretboard.
4. I would like to keep the spike at the 7th in useable shape, because then I can hook the string there, and be able to tune the fifth up a couple of frets.
Thoughts, ideas, comments would be appreciated.
I tap the spike onto a .013" feeler gauge blade for getting it as far down as possible.
To further help the clearance issue i sand or file the top of the spike to smoothe the rough edges on top.
This also increases the clearance between the fretted 5th string and the next spike.
I place my spikes directly under the 5th string and I constantly thumbfret the 5th string with no spike buzzing...just clear notes.
Placing the spikes at or very near the haifway point between the frets also helps for clearance.
Don't sand too much off the top as too much removed will weaken the hol;ding power of the spike.
If lightly filing down the top of the 9th fret spike doesn't work and it's in as far as it can go by feeler gauge you will need to raise your overall action either by a taller bridge, neck shim or check your truss rod to make sure there is enough relief in the neck.
Edited by - banjoez on 03/27/2023 08:24:42
Removing spikes for repositioning and filling the tiny hole with a mixture of glue and sawdust of the same wood as the fingerboard will be unnoticeable.
#2 and #3 are cosmetic barriers. Removing a spike solves the problem. Maybe fill the hole instead of driving a spike flush with the hole -- which of these option would look worse to you?
What is the height of the frets? Typically, a spike can be installed and filed such that the top of the spike is no higher than the frets. In this situation, the action height is irrelevant.
Did the spikes come with the banjos? Or were they installed after you acquired the banjos?
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z#2 and #3 are cosmetic barriers. Removing a spike solves the problem. Maybe fill the hole instead of driving a spike flush with the hole -- which of these option would look worse to you?
What is the height of the frets? Typically, a spike can be installed and filed such that the top of the spike is no higher than the frets. In this situation, the action height is irrelevant.
Did the spikes come with the banjos? Or were they installed after you acquired the banjos?
Good points - especially "which looks worse". Spikes on the most recent purchase were installed by Banjo.com as part of setup on a new banjo. I assume they did not test it before shipping to me. But it's the same on all of mine.
I will check the fret height.
quote:
Originally posted by steve davisRemoving spikes for repositioning and filling the tiny hole with a mixture of glue and sawdust of the same wood as the fingerboard will be unnoticeable.
Understood and appreciated. I want to avoid any mod to the fret board, so filing down may be the way to go.
quote:
Originally posted by banjoezIf lightly filing down the top of the 9th fret spike doesn't work and it's in as far as it can go by feeler gauge you will need to raise your overall action either by a taller bridge, neck shim or check your truss rod to make sure there is enough relief in the neck.
Thank you for this. I think filing may be the answer. Also, I may have been "greedy" going for 3/32 action at the 12th.
quote:
Originally posted by gcpickenquote:
Originally posted by banjoezIf lightly filing down the top of the 9th fret spike doesn't work and it's in as far as it can go by feeler gauge you will need to raise your overall action either by a taller bridge, neck shim or check your truss rod to make sure there is enough relief in the neck.
Thank you for this. I think filing may be the answer. Also, I may have been "greedy" going for 3/32 action at the 12th.
Yes, that may be the case. 3/32 at the 12th fret is a pretty low action but not unachievable. You need a well built neck, the proper height bridge and fine tuning of the truss rod to achieve without buzzing somewhere. Once you've done all you can with the spike itself and still have issues try adjusting the truss rod. Sight down the neck and you should be able to see a slight forward bow throughout when properly adjusted. That is normal. You may also find out improved volume and tone after getting the proper relief set.
Edited by - banjoez on 03/27/2023 10:01:18
My spikes work great with the action at .092/12 .098/22 relief at 7th fret of .015" 1st fret string clearance of .011" to .013"
I fret the 5th a lot and demand those notes to be the same quality as all the other fretted notes.
Edited by - steve davis on 03/27/2023 10:53:17
Thank you everyone, and thank you Banjo Hangout for providing this forum. I’m going to take my time and consider these options. I need to do some measurements, etc.
Would it change any opinions if I said this is a $7K instrument (way above my ability to get the best out of it), so anything cosmetic would make me cry. No banjo luthiers around here, and guitar luthiers seem mystified by banjos.
My '29 TB-2/Cox conversion is worth a lot,too.Spikes don't know what banjo they're on.
If they are put in wrong they can easily be corrected with no damage done.Unless someone is exceedingly dumb and drills down through the neck.
A job to be done sober.
Edited by - steve davis on 03/27/2023 11:44:13
"Unless someone is exceedingly dumb and drills down through the neck."
Exactly! That's also why you don't want to hammer down the spikes level with the neck. 
No idea how deep the spike is, or whether it was trimmed suitably before installation. As Mr. steve says, installing spikes is "A job to be done sober."
Remove the 9th fret spike, luthier can fill the tiny hole with some ebony dust and glue, and sand it, no one but you will ever know it it WAS there. No tears needed.
And if you want the 9th fret spike, a good luthier familiar with banjos can install it correctly so that the top of the spike is no higher than the top of the frets. If something is interfering with the fretted 5th string after that, the cause ain't the spike.
quote:
Originally posted by steve davisMy '29 TB-2/Cox conversion is worth a lot,too.Spikes don't know what banjo they're on.
If they are put in wrong they can easily be corrected with no damage done.Unless someone is exceedingly dumb and drills down through the neck.A job to be done sober.
Neat! I also have a conversion. TB-4 arch top no hole tone ring, Steve Huber did the restoration. It plays great - but I guess most of that is due to Steve Huber's new neck.
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z"Unless someone is exceedingly dumb and drills down through the neck."
Exactly! That's also why you don't want to hammer down the spikes level with the neck.
Remove the 9th fret spike, luthier can fill the tiny hole with some ebony dust and glue, and sand it, no one but you will ever know it it WAS there. No tears needed.
And if you want the 9th fret spike, a good luthier familiar with banjos can install it correctly so that the top of the spike is no higher than the top of the frets. If something is interfering with the fretted 5th string after that, the cause ain't the spike.
Based on the great responses/collective experience and wisdom expressed, I am going to dig into the fret height v spike height and give more thought.
quote:
Originally posted by gcpicken4. I would like to keep the spike at the 7th in useable shape, because then I can hook the string there, and be able to tune the fifth up a couple of frets.
Thoughts, ideas, comments would be appreciated.
I suppose you're never fretting the 5th, don't you?
I do it a lot, both when playing Scruggs back-up up the neck and when playing melodics.
So if there's anything I cant use, it would be a 5th string that notes on different frets from the 1st string...
Except some very rare occasions like, for example, Béla's 'Eager and Anxious I'd never retune the 5th.
So my spikes are on 7, 8, 9, & 10....
Edited by - RB-1 on 03/27/2023 14:19:10
I remove a bit from the bottom tip of the spike with End cutters
I file a bit off the tip of the spike, rounding it smooth with diamond grit nail file
I file the underside of the spike smooth, same file
I remove some from the top of the spike, rounding smooth, same file
I drill a #63 hole that is a friction fit for the spikes I have
I put a tiny drop of super glue on the spike
I set the spike with a .012 or .013 feeler gauge, depending on light or medium strings
I polish the spike with 0000 steel wool
I test play the banjo, looking for buzzes, damping or finger catching
Most of the above I learned from Ritchie Dotson on a youtube video
I put a tiny piece of tape or paint on the drill bit at the length of the spike in the wood minus a few thousandths so that the tip of the spike goes into the undrilled bottom of the hole.
My bit is a few thousandths narrower than the diameter of the spike...forced fit.Very solid.
quote:
Originally posted by RB-1quote:
Originally posted by gcpicken4. I would like to keep the spike at the 7th in useable shape, because then I can hook the string there, and be able to tune the fifth up a couple of frets.
Thoughts, ideas, comments would be appreciated.I suppose you're never fretting the 5th, don't you?
I do it a lot, both when playing Scruggs back-up up the neck and when playing melodics.
So if there's anything I cant use, it would be a 5th string that notes on different frets from the 1st string...
Except some very rare occasions like, for example, Béla's 'Eager and Anxious I'd never retune the 5th.
So my spikes are on 7, 8, 9, & 10....
I may not have understood you post, but I have started fretting the 5th with my thumb, which is why the issue is coming up now, after 3 years of attempting to imitate a banjo player.
I mostly play at home with track or the metronome, and so I haven't had to worry about capo-ing much. I'll never need to go above B, so a spike at 7 and tuning up a whole tone would nit be a problem. In any event, I'm going to get out the measuring instruments tonight and see what's what, and thank you.
I use spikes and 3/32" over the 12th fret action as well with no issues of buzzing. I made my own necks and installed my own spikes, so it is achievable. On an ebony fretboard, filling spike holes is rarely detectable. Filing will likely solve your issue.
I have only 2 spikes in my banjos at 7 and 9 and I play all keys.
You can slightly raise the action of just the fifth string. There are bridges that do that. You can also try slipping a little piece of paper under the groove for the 5th string on the bridge. That little bit might be enough.
Guys - thank you- you saved my bacon! The spike at the 7th fret was actually proud of the frets. And the fretboard is radiused, so it was even prouder on one side than the other. I loosened the 5th string and taped it out of the way, tapped it a few times with hammer (checking after each tap), taped the fret board off against an errant file move, and filed it down a wee bit at a time. The spike at the 9th fret is not proud of the frets (but very close) and that might be more of a technique issue.
Trying to help somebody when you can’t pick the the thing up and look at it yourself, is daunting, but you did it. I’ll sleep better tonight, friends!
quote:
Originally posted by gcpickenquote:
Originally posted by RB-1quote:
Originally posted by gcpicken4. I would like to keep the spike at the 7th in useable shape, because then I can hook the string there, and be able to tune the fifth up a couple of frets.
Thoughts, ideas, comments would be appreciated.I suppose you're never fretting the 5th, don't you?
I do it a lot, both when playing Scruggs back-up up the neck and when playing melodics.
So if there's anything I cant use, it would be a 5th string that notes on different frets from the 1st string...
Except some very rare occasions like, for example, Béla's 'Eager and Anxious I'd never retune the 5th.
So my spikes are on 7, 8, 9, & 10....
I may not have understood you post, but I have started fretting the 5th with my thumb, which is why the issue is coming up now, after 3 years of attempting to imitate a banjo player.
I mostly play at home with track or the metronome, and so I haven't had to worry about capo-ing much. I'll never need to go above B, so a spike at 7 and tuning up a whole tone would nit be a problem. In any event, I'm going to get out the measuring instruments tonight and see what's what, and thank you.
When tuning up, didn't you notice that the notes on the 5th have moved, compared to those on the other strings?
It's no different from retuning any other strings.
The notes will be shifted relative to those on not-retuned strings.
That's why I can't play in Bb on a banjo without a spike at the 8th fret....
But just like you did, I'm always hand crafting spikes until they're right.
