Hello everyone, a few weeks ago I've aquired on a trip in France, this old banjo. The neck it's walnut, has 5 strings and a cut at the heel. I've seen a video of an old guy who has a similar one with the same cut and he says It's a Dobson one (his has a different shaped headstock).
As his mine also has a metal, maybe brass, sheet alongside the rim.
Could it have had friction pegs like old models?
The skin was all cut open so I took it off to clean all the rest.
Also it didn't had frets except for the highest ones but they weren't metal ones but plastic pieces that didn't stick out, they were on the same level of the freatbord, making it fretless.
Many thanks to who can help me identify it and tip me on how adjust it since I'm new to 5 string banjos
This is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmKJMYO3E4g&list=LL&index=18&ab_channel=rpeek
Edited by - eliaNu on 03/26/2023 09:29:18
Looks like an old Buckbee, 1890ish. It would have to have the name Dobson on it somewhere to be an actual Dobson, which were in fact, built by Buckbee. I have a couple similar, that are nice little players when you get them set up. They probably did have Friction Pegs as this was a basic model, not very fancy. Some necks were available at the time with cuts along the fretboard as markers to indicate where the position your fingers would be placed to give the correct pitch. They were indeed fretless. If you post more picture showing all parts from different angles some one might be able to give you more information! Good luck finding parts and have fun putting it all back together! It was an interesting learning experience for me that i enjoyed very much!
Whether it has "Dobson" on it or not, it was made by Buckbee. I would check the joint betwwen the dowelstick (that square portion that goes through the round part (the "pot") because it appears that it is misaligned. That could mean the glue there has failed and the neck is loose (it can be repaired).
Do you have all the parts (hooks and nuts, shoes that hold those, tailpiece, neck attachment hardware) ?
When you get ready to string this up, you should use nylon strings, especially if wooden friction pegs are used. Steel strings can do major damage to these ancient banjos.
In the video, all those spring tabs along the side would hold a round tone ring, you can see the mark on the head where the tone ring touched
I have these more, screw and hooks are original, misses the bridge, nut and tailpiece.
No Dobson written anywere nor cuts near the fretboard.
Any tips on which type of strings I could use? Also what kind or frets to add or do to make it again fretless? Also do you suggest to use wooden friction pegs? Like violin ones?
I didn't suggest wooden violin pegs, although many of these antiques did use them. Steel strings will cut them to ribbons and sometimes break them. Steel is also not good for the rest of the banjo, as they generally put too much tension on everything (these banjos originally used gut strings) I don't usually recommend a particular maker of strings, because people tend to have preferences. LaBella 17s are many times recommended, but others prefer strings called "Nylgut," made by Aquila.
You mentioned fret slots filled with plastic. These were likely original. I'd guess the "plastic" is celluloid, but any plastic should work. It just has to be fitted into the slots and trimmed or sanded so that it's level with the wood. Fret slots could alternately be filled with a wood that contrasts in color with the flat fingerboard.
A "No-Knot "tailpiece should work, though some folks fashion their own from ebony, and metal friction pegs would also be period correct, even if this particular banjo used fiddle pegs.
Thanks for the suggestions. If i use a no knot talipiece I still should have to tie the nylon string to the tailpiece pegs right? Or someone makes loop end nylon strings?
You have to tie the ends around the little posts on the tailpiece. I don't know of anyone who makes loop end nylon strings.
The old "No-Knot" tailpieces had a slot in each post. A gut string laid into the slot, then wrapped around itself and the post, would hold securely without knotting the string. Nylon (and other synthetic substitutes for gut) are much more likely to slip off the post when mounted in the same way, and do require some sort of knot or loop. Some of the newer "No-Knot"-style tailpieces don't even have slotted posts.
If that banjo were mine, I'd probably make a simple wooden tailpiece for it, fit it with a set of violin pegs, and fill the fret slots with "ivoroid" plastic binding strips (filed flush, of course).
I see that many here are suggesting that this is a Buckbee made instrument, but my poorly trained eye is leaning to this being a homemade neck. While relatively well done, it doesn't seem to be a precise as what came out of the Buckbee factory. You can still see the crosshatching from the shaping at the heel. As for the pot, yeah that looks like jobber parts.
I'm not going to claim that my word is final. That's just the feeling I get from looking at the photos provided.
Blaine
Edited by - tbchappe on 04/14/2023 06:40:27
quote:
Originally posted by tbchappeI see that many here are suggesting that this is a Buckbee made instrument, but my poorly trained eye is leaning to this being a homemade neck. While relatively well done, it doesn't seem to be a precise as what came out of the Buckbee factory. You can still see the crosshatching from the shaping at the heel. As for the pot, yeah that looks like jobber parts.
I'm not going to claim that my word is final. That's just the feeling I get from looking at the photos provided.
Blaine
FWIW I am not seeing Buckbee here either.
In the same vein, there’s nothing about the neck to suggest it’s not English. Then again that’s not to say it is.
And purely on (completely fallible) gut instinct my feeling is that the flush frets were an after manufacture addition.
I’d place the neck a tad earlier around late 1870’s to c.1885?
Edited by - 5stringjem on 04/14/2023 07:43:53
quote:
Originally posted by Dan GellertThe old "No-Knot" tailpieces had a slot in each post. A gut string laid into the slot, then wrapped around itself and the post, would hold securely without knotting the string. Nylon (and other synthetic substitutes for gut) are much more likely to slip off the post when mounted in the same way, and do require some sort of knot or loop. Some of the newer "No-Knot"-style tailpieces don't even have slotted posts.
If that banjo were mine, I'd probably make a simple wooden tailpiece for it, fit it with a set of violin pegs, and fill the fret slots with "ivoroid" plastic binding strips (filed flush, of course).
I've not had a problem with nylon slipping using the actual no knot feature. I have used stopper knots but have not run into a situation where the string slipped and the knot became necessary.
I always recommend that people use period tailpieces as designed. For one thing, it looks nicer when that is done. The biggest problem is that people will tie strings onto parts of tailpieces that were not intended to be tied to, and this his a tendency to destroy the tailpiece.
What I don't like is when people are mislead into thinking they need to tie a more complicated knot like the bowline for a loop. That, with polyester (nylgut) strings, makes the loops elongate and look stupid and sloppy.
My thinking was that if this was a true Dobson, it would have been made by Buckbee. Because there is no "Dobson" marking anywhere, it may not be Buckbee made. The neck, with its elongated peghead and mis-alignment, may have been home made, although I think the fret inlays were probably not added later.
Whatever make this is, the work required to make it playable is still the same.
To me, the most obvious problem is the misaligned neck. That could be a simple re-glue job, but could involve re-shaping the neck heel, and plugging the dowelstick hole and re-drilling it. Probably not a job for an amateur.
Violin style tuners might seem like the easiest solution, but they need to be properly fitted, requiring special tools and some expertise. Probably also not a job for an amateur.
