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I want to reduce the risk of getting injuries in the future of playing. Is the angle of my wrist okay or too bent? If I relax with my shoulder and arm, this is how my wrist looks like
Edited by - Bananen123 on 03/22/2023 06:11:47
Is it comfortable to play in that way or does it hurt our wrist? If it's comfortable, causes no aches, pains, etc., then go for it.
Have you ever watched J.D. Crowe's hand position? His wrist is bent to the point where I think it should be hurting him, but evidently it isn't/wasn't and he played that way for years.
If your posture is poor, you're probably going to hurt your back more than your wrist. A straight backed chair, no arms, sitting up straight, not slouched should be the position you aim for, but most don't.
Having said that, as one of our esteemed members has said, and I paraphrase: it's your banjo, play it however you want.
Below is a link to a YouTube video of J.D. Crowe and the New South playing "Many A Mile". There's a great close-up view of J.D.'s right hand at the 0:11 mark of the video. You can clearly see how much he bent his wrist. However, I would point out that the back of his hand is essentially parallel to the surface of the the banjo head.
If you watch the entire video, you'll also see and hear him play a really neat lick at the 2:34 mark at the end of the song.
Edited by - RB3 on 03/22/2023 07:21:46
Looks good to me unlike many I've seen playing with there wrist flat to the head. I've always had my wrist bent the same as JD and never had problems with pain or being uncomfortable.
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I think that looks good. You want to be however relaxes your elbow and shoulder. The higher your wrist is, the easier your fingers can move.
quote:
Originally posted by TexasbanjoIs it comfortable to play in that way or does it hurt our wrist? If it's comfortable, causes no aches, pains, etc., then go for it.
Have you ever watched J.D. Crowe's hand position? His wrist is bent to the point where I think it should be hurting him, but evidently it isn't/wasn't and he played that way for years.
If your posture is poor, you're probably going to hurt your back more than your wrist. A straight backed chair, no arms, sitting up straight, not slouched should be the position you aim for, but most don't.
Having said that, as one of our esteemed members has said, and I paraphrase: it's your banjo, play it however you want.
Yeah JD Crowes hand position looks extreme but he seemed to always be able to play without any problems.
Oh right, I've forgotten the posture is important, I will remind myself of that in the future. Hmm I wonder, if I "half lay down" in bed slouched but totally relaxed and play, does that count as bad posture even though my body is completely relaxed?
Bad posture is bad posture whether you're laying in bed, slouching on the couch or slumping in a chair. It may not seem to affect your playing, but it could be harming your body.
Edited by - Texasbanjo on 03/22/2023 14:12:53
I read somewhere try putting tennis ball under the wrist as a start then go from there. Youll find your comfort zone
Oh really? In that case, my wrist should be fine ??
As long as you're comfortable and picking cleanly you're fine
"I want to reduce the risk of getting injuries in the future of playing. Is the angle of my wrist okay or too bent? If I relax with my shoulder and arm, this is how my wrist looks like"
There are two things going on. One is OK, the other is not OK.
1. Hand position is OK. (Forget wrist bend for now.) The position of the hand over the head of the banjo is OK. It is a little above parallel, and this enables the fingers to move across the strings more easily and comfortably. Flat parallel to the head doesn't work as well for most players, whether banjo, guitar, etc.
2. ELBOW POSITION MAY NOT OK. Lying in bed? The elbow has dropped way down, well behind the back of the resonator. The sharp bend in the wrist is being caused by the position of the elbow, not the position of the hand. Mr. JD plays like this, but he says his hand and arm are relaxed, but might not be that way for others, and that others should play in a relaxed position for them, not copy him.
To get your natural relaxed position, either stand up or sit on a wooden chair or bench, but don't lean back or slouch. Get the entire arm into a relaxed and comfortable picking position, from your shoulder to the end of the fingertips. That's the position for you, that won't cause injuries from heavy use. What Mr. JD or anyone else does is not relevant.
If you want to lie in bed and play the banjo, at least be aware of what your natural arm/ hand position is when sitting straight up or standing.
Your wrist is fine. If it’s comfortable it’s fine. If you want bend ? Check out fellow hangout member Kurt Kemp . Kurt make JD look like his wrist is in a cast ! Lol I always enjoy Kurt’s videos.
quote:
Originally posted by Will FradyYour wrist is fine. If it’s comfortable it’s fine. If you want bend ? Check out fellow hangout member Kurt Kemp . Kurt make JD look like his wrist is in a cast ! Lol I always enjoy Kurt’s videos.
Wow what a wrist position from Kurt! 
But he plays well
quote:
Originally posted by Alex Z2. ELBOW POSITION MAY NOT OK. Lying in bed? The elbow has dropped way down, well behind the back of the resonator. The sharp bend in the wrist is being caused by the position of the elbow, not the position of the hand. Mr. JD plays like this, but he says his hand and arm are relaxed, but might not be that way for others, and that others should play in a relaxed position for them, not copy him.
To get your natural relaxed position, either stand up or sit on a wooden chair or bench, but don't lean back or slouch. Get the entire arm into a relaxed and comfortable picking position, from your shoulder to the end of the fingertips. That's the position for you, that won't cause injuries from heavy use. What Mr. JD or anyone else does is not relevant.
If you want to lie in bed and play the banjo, at least be aware of what your natural arm/ hand position is when sitting straight up or standing.
Oooh interesting, I haven't even thought about how my arm/elbow falls back when laying down, and that's probably why the arch on wrist becomes so appearent. But now if I stand or sit straight, I still get an arch (but a slightly less angle maybe?). If I try to make my wrist more straight I have to bring my shoulder or elbow forward which feels like a lot of tension (maybe because I'm not used to it right now, but it feels unnatural like how I have to actively tense my arm/shoulder muscles). Right now I feel completely relaxed and that's how my arm is placed if don't tense up at all.
Edited by - Bananen123 on 03/22/2023 14:26:00
Good pictures! The sitting and standing will be your natural position.
As a cue, notice how your elbow is about even with the back of the resonator. So if you are sitting back in a chair or lying down, that's about where you want your arm position to be.
"Right now I feel completely relaxed and that's how my arm is placed if don't tense up at all."
Perfect. If you are comfortable and relaxed with the sitting/standing arm position, that's all you want or need. No need to be concerned with wrist bend or elbow position. Just check occasionally if you are sitting/lying in other postures. And keep the shoulder on down relaxed.
As an example, if the back of your hand from the wrist to the knuckles feels strained after a while, then the bend is too much, and to correct that move the elbow a little farther from the body and that should relieve the strain. If not, forget the elbow position when sitting upright or standing, since you are comfortable and relaxed. As an example of strain, hold your arm out with the hand and forearm straight in line. Then flex (bend) the wrist as much as possible. Then try to make a fist -- you'll feel the excessive strain in the back of the hand and on the inner part of the forearm.
Getting to flexible and capable positions is not a new idea -- classical guitarists and pianists are much aware of posture, arm position, wrist position, and finger position to give themselves the most capable way of playing the instrument without excessive strain. Everyone is a little different, just applying the same principles to the banjo. Most of the time players fall right into a good position -- as you did when sitting upright and standing. (It is possible that someone who looks different, such as Mr. JD, is still applying the same principles of natural positioning, lack of strain, relaxation. Mr. JD has said he feels relaxed when he is picking; he's not forcing anything.)
Edited by - Alex Z on 03/22/2023 14:57:25
Deleted. Moderator, please delete.
Edited by - gcpicken on 03/22/2023 16:10:57
Just my completely unqualified opinion, but because the relative positions of your wrist/fingers/arm/head/banjo head position are going to be different depending on whether you are standing, sitting or lying down, you are setting yourself up for failure. I think most would suggest that you maintain the same relative position of your hand/arm/head/banjo head whenever you are practicing.
Sitting and standing are fine, if you are in the sitting position where you are upright and the banjo is between you legs, and your legs are spread open. YOUR ‘sitting’ position looks like you are sitting down, but your banjo is not between your legs, it is more on your lap and has rolled inward - it’s not a dobro.
So your poor hands are trying to absorb three different playing positions and angle of attack and adjust to each one. So I think you are hurting your progress.
I say this because I had to break the habit of picking around laying down, and sitting but laying back a bit. I still do that to learn a song, but to actually practice, I’m standing or on a stool with my legs open.
Edited by - gcpicken on 03/22/2023 16:13:21
quote:
Originally posted by Bananen123Oooh interesting, I haven't even thought about how my arm/elbow falls back when laying down, and that's probably why the arch on wrist becomes so appearent. But now if I stand or sit straight, I still get an arch (but a slightly less angle maybe?). If I try to make my wrist more straight I have to bring my shoulder or elbow forward which feels like a lot of tension (maybe because I'm not used to it right now, but it feels unnatural like how I have to actively tense my arm/shoulder muscles). Right now I feel completely relaxed and that's how my arm is placed if don't tense up at all.
I'm not sure it's the perspective but even though everything regarding hand posture looks okay to me (I never paid much attention to hand posture myself), I wonder how much your fingers and hand are angled towards the strings. There seems to be a lot of empty armrest before the spot where you rest your arm but, as already said, this may be due to the perspective in which the photos were taken.
There are some good suggestions given and I especially agree with the points suggested by gcpickin in one of the previous posts;
For the sake of consistency your banjo should always be in the same position when you play it. Sling your banjo around your neck on its strap while standing. When you have determined the correct height (comfortable for both picking and fretting) for your banjo, your arms should be comfortable in their playing position and your strap adjusted accordingly. Your picking hand and arm will basically fall into place and feel somewhat natural. The face of the banjo will be close to vertical (depending on the size of your belly) and the back of your hand should also be close to vertical mirroring the banjo head. You should not feel pain. This is your playing position and it will fine tune itself as you get more hours of play time.
Now, with banjo still around slung in the standing position you have just determined, sit down on a flat seated, straight back (or no back) chair or stool. Sitting with your back straight and vertical, splay your legs a let the banjo hang into the same playing position as when you are standing. Remember to keep your elbows in close to your body and NOT chicken winging it.
These are the only two positions you should consider (especially as a new player).
This information will go a long way toward proper natural hand positioning. If at some point you obtain an additional banjo(s), make certain to have all your straps adjust to the same length for consistency.
Good Luck and have fun!
Edited by - Pick-A-Lick on 03/23/2023 06:20:37
"Right now I feel completely relaxed and that's how my arm is placed if don't tense up at all."
This is the goal, the perfect outcome, and he has reached it when standing up and sitting upright. He is there! 
My favorite quotation on this subject comes from Pat Cloud in Masters of the 5-String Banjo: "[T]he reason I angle my fingerpicks and straighten them out is because I can just put my hand in a very comfortable position where I don't have to cock my wrist to the side. I've noticed a lot of bluegrass players cock their wrist to the side, and if tendinitis or tension results, it's because the wrist function is being impaired. In other words, you're running those tendons through a kink in your wrist. So I do what I do to be as comfortable as I can with the right hand.”
I'll be more worried about your forearm tendons draped over that metal armrest at that angle, that's where I usually feel it first which causes me to prop my elbow out a bit I even sometimes feel my hand starting to sort of get numb from the arm rest
I would find a very good banjoist, and ask them to "check out" how my wrist is positioned. You must be comfortable and not adversly affect volume/tone. Keep your fingers away from the bridge.
A qualfied observer can evaluate playing technique better than the musician. I tell a person I play with to let me know when I am acquiring a bad habit.
Sit on a backless stool. That will eliminate any slouching & promote good posture. Put the banjo strap over the left shoulder & across your back, guitar style, & align the weight with your spine. You should not have to "push" the banjo with the forearm. The right arm should hang naturally from the shoulder. Go from there with the wrist/hand.
Lay you hand diagonally over the head of the banjo. Tilt it so that your picks are mostly parrallel to the strings and can dig in as far as you want sound wise. Earl Scruggs told me that many years ago. He didn't give it a thought and I'm sure J.D. did the same thing. He may have watched some pickers who looked relaxed so try not to over analyze where and how your wrist is tilted. Sherry the Moderator and Philipp make common sense in their posts; if it doesn't hurt, don't worry about it so much. If it doesn't hurt now it probably won't later either and if it does, don't tilt quite as much...Jack
Originally posted by Bananen123I want to reduce the risk of getting injuries in the future of playing. Is the angle of my wrist okay or too bent? If I relax with my shoulder and arm, this is how my wrist looks like
Edited by - Jack Baker on 04/13/2023 08:58:00
"Your hand" I meant. Try to get your index and middle fingers/picks to pick flush to the angle of the strings as much as possible without turning your wrist too much...Jack
quote:
Originally posted by Jack BakerLay you hand diagonally over the head of the banjo. Tilt it so that your picks are mostly parrallel to the strings and can dig in as far as you want sound wise. Earl Scruggs told me that many years ago. He didn't give it a thought and I'm sure J.D. did the same thing. He may have watched some pickers who looked relaxed so try not to over analyze where and how your wrist is tilted. Sherry the Moderator and Philipp make common sense in their posts; if it doesn't hurt, don't worry about it so much. If it doesn't hurt now it probably won't later either and if it does, don't tilt quite as much...Jack
Originally posted by Bananen123I want to reduce the risk of getting injuries in the future of playing. Is the angle of my wrist okay or too bent? If I relax with my shoulder and arm, this is how my wrist looks like
May I add: don't twist your wrist, instead move the banjo up and/or down until you get the correct angle that's comfortable for your wrist and also aligns your fingers with the strings.
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